Jack the Bodiless

After 132 posts so far, you have STILL not provided one single example of a verifiably-successful prophecy.

Yet you still claim that verifiably-successful prophecies are what we should be looking for to distinguish the "true god" from the "false gods".

Amazing!

Sheshonq

Maybe because he didn't fulfill the prophecies, and in the eyes of the Jews was not the Messiah?

Preaching deleted.

Sheshonq

So basically you've given up on your homemade history of 20th century Mideast affairs, and admit that it's filled with errors.

Thank you.

More of your interpretation and preaching. Deleted.

Sheshonq

Simple question then: why have so many of these prophecies failed?

Johnny Skeptic

Message to sugarhitman: Do you mind staying on-topic and discussing your opening post? In your opening post, you said "The history of the Jews has been one of dispersion and restoration......." Ok, what has been restored that was originally promised? You obviously are not able to comprehend what you read. Genesis 17:8 says "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, ALL the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God." Regarding the words ALL, and EVERLASTING, the prophecy failed on both counts.

What in the world does the partition of Palestine have to do with the word "everlasting"? The correct answer is, nothing at all. The only reasonable explanation for the word is that the writer of Genesis 17:8 believed that God had made an everlasting land promise to Abraham and his descendants, meaning that Abraham and his descendants would always occupy all of the land of ancient Canaan. When, contrary to the writer's expectations, the Jews were kicked out of Palestine, lies were necessary in order to cover up the contradiction, so someone made up stories about the Jews being scattered and eventually recovering their homeland. Obviously, "being scattered and eventually recovering their homeland" does not have anything whatsoever to do with the word "everlasting." I don't suppose that you would like to explain what the word "everlasting" means regarding Genesis
17:8, would you? No?, well I didn't think that you would.

May I ask why anyone should believe that God inspired prophecies about the Jews?

Since the Jews were kicked out of Palestine on a number of occasions, why do you believe that they will not be kicked out again?

If God promised to give Frank one dollar, and gave Frank twenty-five cents, in your opinion, was that a fulfilled prophecy?

You and arnoldo are frequently evasive, and refuse to directly reply to arguments from skeptics. The undecided crowd surely interprets evasiveness as weakness. You know that you cannot successfully refute my arguments by directly replying to them in detail. Your apparent interest in defending Christianity is obviously a masquerade. Any committed Christian would be willing to reply to my arguments point by point. You obviously do not believe that God will give the wisdom to successfully refute my arguments. "O ye of little faith."

Which of your bag of evasive tactics will you use now?

sugarhitman

"For behold, in those days and at that time, WHEN I BRING BACK THE CAPTIVES OF JUDAH AND JERUSALEM......I will gather all nations....and will enter into judgement with them there."


"Behold, the day of the Lord is coming....For I will gather ALL nations to battle against JERUSALEM."


"Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of drunkeness to all the surrounding peoples when they lay seige against JUDAH AND JERUSALEM..."

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near...For these are the days of vengence that ALL things which are written may be fulfilled....And JERUSALEM will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

Is not Jerusalem the capital of Israel which has always been? Yes, you say? Then indeed Israel is restored. It does not matter how much territory has been restored to them that determines if they are restored or not. What matters is that Jerusalem has been. Jerusalem as scripture indicates is the center of biblical prophecy and importance to the Jews. If the Jews did not have Jerusalem as their capital, then no they would not be restored.....and prophecy could preceed no further. After this last war Israel will have ALL the land promised to it...because there will be no more hostile nation opposing it's promise. :wave:

arnoldo

Here is a prophecy that has already been fulfilled

There are other prophecies that state after the Jews wander among the nations they will begin to return to their homeland as they are doing so this very moment.

Johnny Skeptic

Please quote the pertinent Scriptures.

Your claim is obviously false since if God really wanted to prove that he can predict the future, all that he would have needed to do would have been to predict when and where some natural disasters would occur. By "when," I mean month, day, and year. Prophecies like that would be indisputable evidence that the prophecies were made by a non-human, which would make the claim that a God exists more plausible. As it is, there is not one single Bible prophecy that is indisputable. You do know that that would not have to be the case if the God of the Bible exists, don't you? If you were able to predict the future, and you wanted people to believe that you were able to predict the future, that would be a simple matter for you to accomplish. For instance, you could predict when and where the next natural disaster would occur. Now isn't that simple? Why must you embarrass yourself by claiming that God wants people to believe that he can predict the future?

If God makes prophecies, why doesn't he keep them? He broke his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar. In addition, you broke the promise that you made in another thread to discuss that issue. You are a bully. You carefully cherry-pick which arguments you will reply to, including arguments that are in response to your opening post. You, just like arnoldo, insist on which arguments get discussed, and frequently refuse to directly reply to skeptics' arguments. The undecided crowd are not impressed with evasiveness. They want to see you and arnoldo directly reply to arguments that skeptics make, not conveniently cherry-pick which arguments you reply to.

Johnny Skeptic

You are not making any sense. This all started with Genesis 17:8. The verse says "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, ALL the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God." Regarding the words ALL, and EVERLASTING, the prophecy failed on both counts. How do you explain the word "everlasting"? What did the writer intend for his audiences at that time and in subsequent generations to believe?

Genesis 17:8 refers to ALL of the land of ancient Canaan, not just to Jerusalem.

If God promised to give Frank one dollar on Monday, and on Thursday gave Frank twenty-five cents, would you call that a fulfilled prophecy?

Anyway, even if God is able to predict the future, that does not reasonably prove that he has good character. If Bill Clinton was able to predict the future, you certainly would not be willing to worship him. In case you are not aware of it, might does not necessarily make right, and God is a liar and a hypocrite.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: Genesis 17:8 says "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, ALL the land of Canaan, for an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God." Regarding the words ALL, and EVERLASTING, the prophecy failed on both counts. How do you explain the word "everlasting"? What did the writer intend for his audiences at that time and in subsequent generations to believe?

Please be advised that Genesis 17:8 does not say anything about Jerusalem, only ALL of the land of ancient Canaan. If God promised to give Frank one dollar, and gave Frank twenty-five cents, would you call that a fulfilled prophecy?

Since skeptics do not believe that God inspired the Bible, what you need to do is to provide evidence that Jews could not have accomplished what they accomplished without the help of a God. If the God of the Bible does not exist, there is nothing about Jewish history that does not have secular explanations.

If God cared about Jews, why did he allow them to be enslaved by the Egyptians? Why did God allow Trajan to go to Palestine and kill 500,000 Jews?

Why did God choose Jews to be his chosen people?

God promised that the messiah would be a genetic descendant of David, reference Micah 5:2. Matthew contradicts that by saying that an angel told Joseph that Jesus would be conceived by the Holy Spirit.

And what about God's failed promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre?