sugarhitman

Hello ladies and gents, supporters and crits, my name is sugarhitman (a fusion of two names of two of my favorate boxers Tommy the Hitman Hearns and Sugar Ray Leonard). There are many who have attacked the prophecies of the Bible such as those by Daniel, those about Tyre and others. From my recent debates and experiences with these people it is clear by their lackluster criticisms and attacks that they are not disproving prophecy but rejecting them ( a big difference by the way).


I have another which will prove most difficult to even reject....The prophecies concerning Israel which were written even in the days of Moses. Moses told the Jews should they ever disobey the voice of God that He would "scatter you among the people, from one end of the earth even to the other; and there you will serve other gods, which you nor your fathers have known, even wood and stone. And among these nations you shall find no ease, neither shall the sole of your feet have rest: but the Lord shall give you there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind." Deut.28:64-65. "But this thing I commanded them saying, obey My voice and I will be your God, and you shall be My people: and walk you in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you. But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the councils and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward...For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight...Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth,and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate." Jeremiah 7 "And you have done worse than your fathers; for behold, everyone of you walks after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not listen to Me. Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that you do not know.

The history of the Jews has been one of dispersion and restoration, persecutions, genocidal attempts by gentiles Egypt, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and the nations of Europe. But guess what the Jews have survived it all, why? because God made these promises:

Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars
for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The Lord of Hosts is His name):

"If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever."

Thus says the Lord:

"If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth
searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the Lord

Ofcourse these things cant be done.... and neither can Israel be destroyed. "For behold, the days are coming says the Lord, that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah', says the Lord. 'And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave their fathers, and they shall posses it." Jeremiah 30. "Therefore behold the days are coming says the Lord, that they shall no longer say 'As the Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt', but 'As the Lord lives who brought up and lead the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I have driven them.' And they shall dwell in their own land.


Yes the existance of the nation of Israel amidst a sea of blood thirsty anti- Israeli Gentile nations proves that God exists. Even now all nations seeks to uproot the Jews from that little land they hold to give it to the Arabs who seek nothing but their total demise....They will not susceed.:wave:

Johnny Skeptic

And with good reason. There good evidence that all of the book of Daniel was not written by Daniel. In addition, since God did not give Nebuchadnezzar Tyre as promised, God is a liar.

But it is not up to skeptics to disprove Bible prophecies, but they have adequately done so anyway.

Actually, God's supposed interest in Israel is one of the easiest parts of the Bible to disprove. Historically, Jews certainly have not been protected by God. The Philistines, the Egyptians, Nebuchadnezzar, and Trajan demolished the Jews on numerous occasions. In the early part of the second century, Trajan went to Palestine to put down a Jewish uprising. He killed 500,000 Jews. Perhaps you will claim that if God has not protected the Jews, Trajan would have killed 1,000,000 Jews.

God promised Abraham and his descendants ALL of the land of ancient Palestine. Today, Jews do not occupy all of the land of ancient Palestine, and there is not any credible evidence that they ever did.

It is interesting to note that even though the Old Testament claims that the messiah would be a genetic descendant of David, Matthew indicates that Jesus was not a genetic descendant of David.

No rational God who wanted people to believe that he specifically exists would ever use copies of copies of ancient written texts as a primary means of communciating with humans without supplementing the texts with lots of personal appearances. He would know that using written texts would invite dissent instead of discouraging dissent, and that lots of personal appearances would be helpful, not harmful. If some personal appearances by God today would not be helpful, it is reasonable to assume that post-Resurrection appearances by Jesus would not have been helpful either.

sugarhitman

You must have not been reading closely, but I will make it crystal clear to you...or rather scripture will.


"Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: "I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said 'I will never break My covenant with you. And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their alters.' But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? Therefore I also said,'I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you." So it was, when the Angel of the Lord spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept." Judges 2: 1-5. The Jews because of disobediance were unable to force those nations out of their land so they could posses all what God had promised them. And those nations to this day has been a thorn in their side in the dispute over that land, but God has promised an end to this as well. "Thus says the Lord God: "Because the enemy has said of you, 'Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession,' "Because they made you desolate and swallowed you up on every side, so that you became the possession of the rest of the nations, and you are taken up by the lips of talkers and slandered by the people....Behold I have spoken in My jealousy and My fury, because you have borne the shame of the nations.....I have raised My hand in an oath that surely the nations that are around you shall bear their own shame. But you, O mountians of Israel you shall shoot forth your branches and yield your fruit to My people Israel, for they are about to come." Eze. 35. The Jews are back Israel is restored...The times of the Gentiles is rapidly approaching.

Johnny says (or rather accusing God of allowing the Jews to suffer and of breaking His promises) why did God allow this or look at all the Jews who died from the hands of such and such? Well let God explain: After the Gog Magog war (the last war in the middle east...Armegeddon) God says: " The Gentiles (you Johnny) shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell from the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them." Eze. 39. Ah, anymore questions?:wave:

brettpalmer

Stop right there.

I'd like to challenge you on that assertion; the biblical Exodus. Care to engage in a little chit-chat? If so, I'll open another thread and we can begin.

Jedi Mind Trick

Personally, I find the history of the Jewish people and the prophecies that relate to them to be remarkable... So Sugar, are you going to convert to Judaism anytime soon? :huh:

Headache

"Latest edition of the bible, now in more colors and with more of god's power included. New and enhanced! Only $99.99!!!"

Johnny Skeptic

That is false. God promised Abraham and his descendants ALL of the ancient land of Canaan. Not only do Jews not occupy all of the land of ancient Canaan today, there is not any credible evidence that they ever occupied ALL of the land of ancient Canaan.

Even if Jews occupied all of the ancient land of Canaan today, how would that have helped make a case for restoration to people who lived thousands of years ago?

In the thread on the Tyre prophecy, you said that one reason that God predicted the future was to strenghten the faith of Jews. I doubt that since Nebuchadnezzar, who Ezekiel called a "king of kings," failed to defeat Tyre. This suggests that the part of Ezekiel 26 that mentions "many nations" was added after it became apparent that Nebuchadnezzar would not defeat Tyre. The same goes for God's failed promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar, which was also probably added when it became apparent that Nebuchadnezzar would not defeat Tyre.

Why didn't Ezekiel mention Alexander? That surely would have strenghthened the faith of Christians today, and probably would have caused a lot more people to become Christians.

Since the Bible says that God is perfect, it only takes one lie to discredit Christianity.

Why aren't you a Jew?

In the other thread, you said that God is trying to show people "truth." What is "truth"? Perhaps the General Religious Discussion Forum would be the best place to discuss this issue. How about it?

jjramsey

Not to steal your thunder here, but where does the OT say that the messiah was a genetic son of David? IIRC, it isn't even all that clear that there are any prophesies in the OT that were originally meant to point a messiah, or if there is a clear concept of a messiah at all in the OT. There are certainly prophecies that were interpreted by later generations of Jews as messianic, but that is something else entirely.

Converse02

"Yes the existance of the nation of Israel amidst a sea of blood thirsty anti- Israeli Gentile nations proves that God exists."

No it doesn't. There are other natural and more reasonable explanations. For example, the United States supply Israel with billions of dollars. The existance of the Israel is not an act of God, but an act of the US and other European nations. It's doesn't prove the existance of God.

Beside, God breaking up the Jews, putting them through the Holocaust, and now in the sea of Muslims would only prove God is an asshole if he did exist.

Chili

Yes it does prove the existence of God and no, God is not an asshole but just not on their side.