Shadow Wraith

I've eavesdropped on many a conversation (usually at work during break) regarding this subject. The basic gist of it is that the EU was predicted in the Bible and is an omen of the end of the world. I'm pretty sure everyone here's somewhat familiar with it. Being an atheist I of course dismiss it as total BS. However, sometimes I get sick of hearing it and want to confront these dummkopfs. So does anyone have material regarding how to debunk this whole "The EU is a portent of the End Times(TM)" nonsense?

Paradox

One thing you can use is the idea that the anti-christ kingdom is supposed to be composed of 10 kings. (3 of these kings are later removed).
Just ask them why there aren't 10 countries in the EU? That'd be good for a start.

doubtingthomas

From what I've heard from alot of current day christians the EU is the prophetic fufillment of the rebuilding of rome. Im not sure if I have all the details of this prophecy right, but I think that the eu couldn't possibly be the rebuilt roman empire since it has 25 nations currently, as opposed to the ten that the prophetic rome is supposed to encompass.

Edit: By the way the EU just added ten new countries to the already established 15.

dantonac

What others have said. The EU would have to have 10 nations. Since it has more it doesn't fit. Of course if political stuff happens and it drops to 10 the Christians will start foaming at the mouth about fulfilled prophecy.

spin

Is this some sort of xian misinterpretation of Dan 7's fourth beast with ten horns? As this was written after the events it refers to it has already been fulfilled. That fourth beast was an elephant which the writer used to represent the only power which used elephants in Palestine, the Seleucid Syrians. The ten kings were the ten from Alexander down to an unnumbered Antiochus who preceded Antiochus IV, the three plucked up were the three immediately before Antiochus IV, for Antiochus IV's brother was assassinated and replaced by Heliodorus and a puppet Antiochus, both of whom were dealt with when Antiochus IV assumed the throne.

If it is the Daniel "prophecy" that supports this stupidity, then put them out of their ignorance by giving them a scholarly commentary of Daniel. Non-scholarly xians are simply clueless about Daniel.


spin

doubtingthomas

This is exactly the verse given for this "prophecy" from what I understand. On a side note, I was wondering if anyone here at this message board has a link to a critique of some of these supposed prophecy fufillments that signify the end times, especially those found in Revelation and Daniel.

Vinnie

Prophecy fulfillment criteria:

http://www.after-hourz.net/ri/prophecycriteria.html

The short version:

Tests for a Prophecy:

1. Cultural Context (the Who, What, Why, and When )?
2. Level of Vagueness?
3. Was the event Fulfilled?
4. Accurately Translated?
5. Textually Stable (did the prophecy precede fulfillment)?
6. Predictability of the Event of Thing
7. Mitigating Circumstances


Also check out this great article by Winace:

http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/proph4dums/

Which is another prophecy fulfillment type guide called Prophecy for Dummies :notworthy

These are general guides on how to systematically evaluate futuristic prophecy (which is of course bogus).

Vinnie

Al Kafirun

Well, its an American Christian trend to see fearful things in the establishment of extra-American, um, groups. That drives doomsday watchers in America more than anything else.

Paradox

Thanks spin. Yes, that's exactly what its based on. I hadn't heard about the elephant before so thanks for putting me on to that. Of course, many fundies would say that Antiochus was merely typology for the future anti-christ kindgdom such as Napolean, Hitler etc etc. The 10 headed kingdom is also found in Revelation where it seems to be far more easily applied to Rome than anything else (and that would certainly fit with the era it was written in).
This is why a lot of Christians call the anti-christ kingdom the revived Roman Empire.

secular buddhist

When I was in high school (and attending a fundamentalist church) the EU (which may have been the EEC back then) did have 10 members. That was the sole reason I recall for the EU being identified with the prophecy in Revelations. I have no idea why this idea wasn't abandoned when the eleventh member joined. I guess it must be because whenever any ad hoc explanation is introduced, it, too, becomes inerrant.