dongiovanni1976x

I find that there is a greast disparity among conservative theologians and secular historians on the issue of dating the Book of Job. Those with a conservative theistic slant date the book as the earliest in the Bible (c. 2,000 BCE) whereas their secular counterparts place it sometime around the return of the exiles (c. 5th century BCE).

How are these dates accounted for, what are their biases and what impact is there on the Bible as history or the BIble as faith when looked at from these two positions?

The PBS series, "Kingdom of David" makes a great case for the secular position but why do literalist disagree and say it precedes Genesis? I have heard varying opinions but most boil down to what was taught to that respective person. My question is to get to the root of WHY this was taught that way and continues to be popular...

dongiovanni1976x

Basically the idea of an afterlife seems to be at the core of this disagreement.Secular historians argue that Jews did not believe in an afterlife but just a "place of the dead" (i.e. Sheol) whereas conservative Christians disagree.
Job asks probing question like, "Why be good when good people suffer if there is no reward in an afterlife." The common view was that one's prosperity in wealth and healthy children was a sign that he was blessed by the gods in THIS LIFE...not in the next. So Job goes through trials and tribulation by losiing his family, ealth and health in THIS LIFE and still has faith...but why? Well BECAUSE there is somethign AFTER this life. But this answer seems only to come AFTER the Book of Job raised the initial question. Which seemed to lead to the 1st recorded instance of a people dying in battle for a religious belief in an afterlife- in the Maccabean revolt.

Any thoughts, coments?

Anat

Job was rewarded in 'this life' after his tribulations (doubled initial property, new kids). When he expresses his death wish he talks of a place where all rest from their troubles. I don't see evidence that the author of Job believed in the kind of afterlife where one is rewarded or punished according to one's deeds while alive. But I don't think Job was hoping for reward when he retained his faith, and had that been his motivation that would have proven the satan right.

Job had faith because the alternative was preposterous to him. He was of the opinion that God was being unjust to him and he demanded an explanation (which he never got), but the idea that his misfortune should be taken as evidence against God's existence never entered his mind, and neither did the idea that his unjust suffering should cause him to lower his own standards for himself.

dongiovanni1976x

Job was posing a philosophical question, "Why be good if some of the rich and prosperous are bad and some of the poor are good?" You are right to say that he never got an answer, but it was the unanswered question itself that is theorized to be at the heart of how the concept of an afterlife for the good and bad- according to deeds/beliefs- arose.

Anat

Isn't it interesting that in the framework story of Job it is the satan who suggests that Job is 'good' because he is rewarded? The satan was wrong about Job, but apparently right about many humans, whose motivation to do good is reward, whether in earthly life or the afterlife.

Roller

Perhaps another clue about the age of the book can be found in the Satan himself :devil:
Methinks that the treatment of the Satan person points to the understanding that God is the one thats responsible for both good and bad. Satan is portrayed as an agent of God when he wants to test his followers/subjects.

Perhaps figuring out when Israelites started thinking that God works evil deeds through Satan helps with dating this book.

Elaine Pagels has a nice one called The Origin of Satan (or via: amazon.co.uk) (I can't infidelize the link for the life of me), where she explores the evolution of Satan.

dongiovanni1976x

Especially with the recent surge in adherents to the Gospel of Prosperity ideology.

dongiovanni1976x

Interesting idea. I think I will have to explore that possibility- thank you.

Tigers!

Job is considered a old book because there is no mention of any law init. No reference to the 10Cs or any other written laws. The mention of behemoth has always fascinated me. despite the footnote in the NIV it does describe a creature like a dinosaur. My daughter when she was about 4 years old have no trouble identified behemoth as a dinosaur.

Anat

How do you know what a behemoth is supposed to be? In modern Hebrew it became identified with the hippopotamus, which is sort of consistent with using leviathan for whale, considering the evolutionary relationship between the two.