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Toto · 12-27-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

... Our chief informant is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37-c.100CE), who devoted most of Book I of his Jewish War and Books XIV to XVII of Jewish Antiquities to the life and times of Herod. Josephus uses as his main source the universal history of Nicolaus of Damascus, the well-informed teacher, adviser and ambassador of Herod. The fact that Josephus often criticises the king suggests that beside the court historian's pro-Herod chronicle, he had also at his disposal another account sympathetic to the Hasmoneans, the Jewish priest-kings, who from 152 BCE ruled the Holy Land, first independently and after 63 BCE under the aegis of Rome, until Herod took their throne in 37 BCE.

stephan huller · 12-27-2010, 03:44 PM

On a related subject, I always smile when I see that 'historians' use the rabbinic story of Herod embalming Mariamne in honey and having sex with her corpse as if it were 'real history.' The truth is probably that all politicians are pretty much the same. Favorable historical conditions probably determine 'good rulers' and the inverse - bad historical conditions breed bad rulers.

DCHindley · 12-27-2010, 08:13 PM

Tot,

While I do not want to detract from the good he brought to his kingdom, I mean the general and indisputable rise in the standard of living of the subjects of his reign and the many privileges he won for the Jewish people (exemption from military service and Hellenized civic duties that would force them to violate the tenets of their religion, right to assemble for worship, etc), in some ways he can be compared to Stalin and Hitler in the severity and ruthlessness by which he dealt with anyone deemed to oppose him, or stand in his way.

What a guy!

I have to wonder, though, what Judaism would be like had he never existed or died early in life. Would Judaism have remained a mere curiosity to educated Hellenes and exercised no strong influence on Roman society and politics? Would Jews of the Diaspora have been forced to assimilate completely to Hellenic culture? There would likely have not been the level of social and class tensions that led to the "Jewish War", which in turn forced the transformation of Judaism from a sacrificial cult to what it came to be today?

Fortunately, or unfortunately, it is all water under the bridge. Neither good nor bad, just what was. No "it coulda or shoulda beens".

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Herod the Terrible or Herod the Great?

Quote:

... Our chief informant is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (37-c.100CE), who devoted most of Book I of his Jewish War and Books XIV to XVII of Jewish Antiquities to the life and times of Herod. Josephus uses as his main source the universal history of Nicolaus of Damascus, the well-informed teacher, adviser and ambassador of Herod. The fact that Josephus often criticises the king suggests that beside the court historian's pro-Herod chronicle, he had also at his disposal another account sympathetic to the Hasmoneans, the Jewish priest-kings, who from 152 BCE ruled the Holy Land, first independently and after 63 BCE under the aegis of Rome, until Herod took their throne in 37 BCE.

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12-27-2010, 03:44 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	On a related subject, I always smile when I see that 'historians' use the rabbinic story of Herod embalming Mariamne in honey and having sex with her corpse as if it were 'real history.' The truth is probably that all politicians are pretty much the same. Favorable historical conditions probably determine 'good rulers' and the inverse - bad historical conditions breed bad rulers.

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