neilgodfrey

Mark 13:25-26:

Often noncanonical (and sometimes canonical) Jewish literature of the Second Temple period equates stars of heaven with angels. Powers of heaven are certainly angelic powers.

So is Mark here saying that it is these angels who will see the Son of Man coming etc?

What does the Greek in this case suggest re the ones who see?

Neil

neilgodfrey

Maybe I used the wrong header in my last post --

Does anyone competent in the Greek know if a passage in Mark 13 can mean that it is the stars and powers (or whatever they represent, whether angels of kings) who will see the Son of Man coming? The passage in question is normally translated and thought to refer to "everyone on earth" will see the Son of Man coming -- but is that necessarily what Mark is saying here?

Mark 13:25-26:

Thanks,
Neil

mountainman

CLOUD appearances in the Nag Hammadi Codices

The Apocalypse of Adam -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryThen they will become as the cloud of the great light. .... And the eighth kingdom says of him that a cloud came upon the earth and enveloped a rock. ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/adam.html - Cached - Similar

The Gospel of the Egyptians -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryThen there came forth at/from that place the cloud of the great light, the living power, .... Then the cloud, being agreeable, came forth in the two monads, ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/goseqypt.html - Cached - Similar

The Paraphrase of Shem -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryFor she brought it forth in the cloud. And the cloud shone. .... It was separated from the light 10 by the cloud of the silence. The cloud was disturbed. ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/para_shem.html - Cached - Similar

Zostrianos -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryWhen he had said this [to me], I very quickly and very gladly went up with him to a great light-cloud. I cast my body upon the earth to be guarded by ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/zostr.html - Cached - Similar

On the Origin of the World -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryNow where he sits is upon a throne of light <within a> great cloud that covers him. And there was no one with him in the cloud except Sophia <the daughter ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html - Cached - Similar

The Second Treatise of the Great Seth -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryThey made for themselves a union with those who were with them in a mixture of a fiery cloud, which was their Envy, and the rest who were brought forth by ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/2seth.html - Cached - Similar

The Apocryphon of John -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryAnd she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of ..... They went into a place and hid themselves in a luminous cloud. ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn.html - Cached - Similar

The Apocryphon of John - Long Version - Translated by Waldstein ...And she placed a throne in the midst of the cloud in order that no one might ..... They were hidden in a luminous cloud. And he understood his authority. ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-long.html - Cached - Similar

The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John)Sophia surrounded him with a brilliant cloud, Put a throne in the center part of the cloud ..... They went into hiding within a cloud of light.] ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html - Cached - Similar

The Apocryphon of John - Short Version - Translated by Waldstein ...She united a luminous cloud with him. She placed a throne in the midst of the cloud so that no one might see him except the holy Spirit who is called Life, ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-short.html - Cached - Similar

The Book of Thomas the Contender -- The Nag Hammadi LibraryAnd your light has hidden in the cloud of [...] and the garment that is put upon you, you [...]. And you were seized by the hope that does not exist. ...
www.gnosis.org/naghamm/bookt.html - Cached - Similar

Additionally, in a number (3 or more?) NT Apocrypha the Apostles
use a "bright cloud" to travel from place to place - especially mountain
tops - a device resembling the "BEAM-ME-UP-SCOTTY" of Star Treck.

John Kesler

I can't speak to the Greek behind these verses, but prima facie, I wouldn't read too much into the fact that "stars" and "powers" are the nearest antecedents to "they." Look at 13:8-9:

The Interpreter's Bible in part gives this commentary regarding Mark 13:25-25:

neilgodfrey

It appears that Matthew noticed Mark's ambiguity here also, since he spells it out to avoid all doubt: "and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds . . . " (Matt. 24:30) Or maybe he was just looking for another excuse to toss in another OT passage.