Doug Shaver

What is there for us to be aware of? Can you show us any evidence as to what records or other data sources, relevant to the question of when Jesus was born, might have been available to the early church fathers so that they could have done any research?

andrewcriddle

Do we have evidence for the great antiquity of St John's Day ?
This claim has been made before but without clear evidence.

Andrew Criddle

Skyler

Did Luke know St. John? Then he would know his birthday.

SKY

Chili

He would have since he knew darkness and these two are opposite to each other. IOW, light is required to make darkness known wherefore then the white candle in the Advent wreath is a reminder of the light we once knew and so is our own baptism candle with a gliimmer of hope among the fading purple.

Skyler

Sorry, what? That is so wierd.

SKY

Chili

Not really since the light of common day is an illusion no matter how bright the sun is or how dark the night can be and so is why the light was before the sun and lesser lights came to be as shown in Gen.1. So here the darkest night on which Christ was born (who they called Jesus) has nothing to do with the movement of the sun who can be bright or dim or even stop in the mind of man since it is an illusion to begin with. So it is really a matter of perception here wherein 'beyond theology' includes 'beyond the light of common day' when Christ was born wherefore then Mary led Joseph back the the state of mind he was born and there/then gave birth to Chirst . . . and will do this time and time again as perpetual virgin in Christendom.

Opposite was John the Baptist who presents the celestial light made known in life of Joseph by Zachariah and Elizabeth which made him an 'upright Jew' who so was torn between light and darkness to signify redemption of the Adamic nature that we call Original sin, and these are the two stands required in the final rout or account/confession, or final round of Samsara or final Good that so leads to the end of the world, or the end of suffering, and the end of darkness, since on the seventh day evening never followed in Gen.2:1 where realization takes place.