Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GenesisNemesis · 03-26-2007, 04:28 PM

God commanded Noah:

"007:002 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the
male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two,
the male and his female."

Prior to this, God did NOT instruct Noah what clean or unclean beasts were. So, how did Noah know? :huh:

Gwen · 03-26-2007, 04:36 PM

Presumably, God told Noah sometime off-stage. Just like he explained to Noah just what a boat was and taught him how to make them and shrunk all the animals down so that they'd fit.

Wolfie · 03-26-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

God commanded Noah:

"007:002 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the
male and his female:"

So did God have a problem with division by two?

Was that 4 males and 3 females or 3 males and 4 females?

3.5 of each?

Or did he mean 7 pairs?

Dr.GH · 03-26-2007, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

So did God have a problem with division by two?

Was that 4 males and 3 females or 3 males and 4 females?

3.5 of each?

Or did he mean 7 pairs?

Seven pairs. The Babylonian creation myth has the gods make humans out of clay and the blood of a god. They made 7 pairs. "Clean" animals were those accepted as sacrafices.
:wave:

thebeave · 03-26-2007, 07:15 PM

Damn! I misread the thread title. I thought it was about clean and unclean breasts! This thread has been the biggest letdown in my life since Gerald Rivera opened Al Capone's vault.

RAFH · 03-26-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebeave

Damn! I misread the thread title. I thought it was about clean and unclean breasts! This thread has been the biggest letdown in my life since Gerald Rivera opened Al Capone's vault.

Pervert!

(about Rivera and Capone)

Reanimator · 03-26-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebeave

Damn! I misread the thread title. I thought it was about clean and unclean breasts! This thread has been the biggest letdown in my life since Gerald Rivera opened Al Capone's vault.

The only reason I even clicked on this thread was because I was going to make a post about how I thought it said "breasts" in the title! Guess I'm not the only one! :grin:

Mike Elphick · 03-27-2007, 01:42 AM

Moses was told by God what were clean and unclean animals; presumably these instructions were issued before the Flood, although according to YECists, meat-eating was not permitted until afterwards (the Bible does not actually specify this), so, if this were true, Noah must have been confused, having never eaten meat before! So also would be the animals, who made their way to the Ark under God's guidance to be saved, only to end up being sacrificed!

Quote:

Leviticus 11 (World English Bible)

1 Yahweh spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them,

2 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying,'These are the living things which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth.

3 Whatever parts the hoof, and is cloven-footed, and chews the cud among the animals, that you may eat.

4 "'Nevertheless these you shall not eat of those that chew the cud, or of those who part the hoof: the camel, because he chews the cud but doesn't have a parted hoof, he is unclean to you.

5 The coney, because he chews the cud but doesn't have a parted hoof, he is unclean to you.

6 The hare [sometimes translated as 'rabbit'], because she chews the cud but doesn't part the hoof, she is unclean to you.

7 The pig, because he has a split hoof, and is cloven-footed, but doesn't chew the cud, he is unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 "'These you may eat of all that are in the waters: whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, that you may eat.

10 All that don't have fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of all the living creatures that are in the waters, they are an abomination to you,

11 and you detest them. You shall not eat of their flesh, and you shall detest their carcasses.

12 Whatever has no fins nor scales in the waters, that is an abomination to you.

13 "'These you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the vulture, and the black vulture,

14 and the red kite, any kind of black kite,

15 any kind of raven,

16 the horned owl, the screech owl, and the gull, any kind of hawk,

17 the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl,

18 the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey,

19 the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe, and the bat.

20 "'All flying insects that walk on all fours are an abomination to you.

21 Yet you may eat these: of all winged creeping things that go on all fours, which have legs above their feet, with which to hop on the earth.

22 Even of these you may eat: any kind of locust, any kind of katydid, any kind of cricket, and any kind of grasshopper.

23 But all winged creeping things which have four feet, are an abomination to you.

24 "'By these you will become unclean: whoever touches the carcass of them shall be unclean until the evening.

25 Whoever carries any part of their carcass shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening.

26 "'Every animal which parts the hoof, and is not cloven-footed, nor chews the cud, is unclean to you. Everyone who touches them shall be unclean.

27 Whatever goes on its paws, among all animals that go on all fours, they are unclean to you. Whoever touches their carcass shall be unclean until the evening.

28 He who carries their carcass shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the evening. They are unclean to you.

29 "'These are they which are unclean to you among the creeping things that creep on the earth: the weasel, the rat, any kind of great lizard,

30 the gecko, and the monitor lizard, the wall lizard, the skink, and the chameleon.

Notice how the work 'kind' is used -- they obviously knew there were several 'kinds' of ravens and owls, so when the Bible uses the word 'kind' aren't they referring to what we would call species? And why did God like the smell of burning flesh?

Dr.GH · 03-27-2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Elphick

Moses was told by God what were clean and unclean animals; presumably these instructions were issued before the Flood, although according to YECists, meat-eating was not permitted until afterwards (the Bible does not actually specify this), so, if this were true, Noah must have been confused, having never eaten meat before! So also would be the animals, who made their way to the Ark under God's guidance to be saved, only to end up being sacrificed!

In the Genesis Flood story, Noah is told that eating meat is now permited (Gen 9:3) with the implication that meat had not been eaten before. Genesis 1:29-30 specifically says that plants are to be the sole source of food. Moses and Aaron were much later, and so the sacrificial laws were "known" to Noah but not explicitly given in the Bible. The Cain and Able story has bearing; God prefered the sacrifice of a lamb by Able over that of the first harvest of plants.

The burnt sacrifice of animals was a Summarian practice (probably much earlier) and was featured in the earlier flood story of Atrahasis (Tablet 3), and in Gilgamesh Tablet 11 which are the most probable sources of the Noah's Flood story.

Mike Elphick · 03-27-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.GH

In the Genesis Flood story, Noah is told that eating meat is now permited (Gen 9:3) with the implication that meat had not been eaten before. Genesis 1:29-30 specifically says that plants are to be the sole source of food.

Yes, it's debatable and depends on how you read these verses. In other translations the word 'meat' (Gen 1:29-30) is translated as 'food'' and Genesis 9:1-4 seems to be confirming man's dominatation over other species and setting rules for how animals should be killed. I suppose you could read into this permission to eat flesh, but it's not very explicit.

Quote:

Moses and Aaron were much later, and so the sacrificial laws were "known" to Noah but not explicitly given in the Bible. The Cain and Able story has bearing; God prefered the sacrifice of a lamb by Able over that of the first harvest of plants.

The burnt sacrifice of animals was a Summarian practice (probably much earlier) and was featured in the earlier flood story of Atrahasis (Tablet 3), and in Gilgamesh Tablet 11 which are the most probable sources of the Noah's Flood story.

Yes, it's quite interesting. The temples must have been bloody and stinking, judging by Leviticus chapters 1-5

.

03-26-2007, 04:28 PM	#1
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	Clean beasts/ Unclean Beasts God commanded Noah: "007:002 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Prior to this, God did NOT instruct Noah what clean or unclean beasts were. So, how did Noah know? :huh:

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-26-2007, 04:36 PM	#2
Gwen Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Transylvania Polygnostic University Posts: 1,172	Presumably, God told Noah sometime off-stage. Just like he explained to Noah just what a boat was and taught him how to make them and shrunk all the animals down so that they'd fit.

03-26-2007, 07:15 PM	#5
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	Damn! I misread the thread title. I thought it was about clean and unclean breasts! This thread has been the biggest letdown in my life since Gerald Rivera opened Al Capone's vault.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.