Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Dagda · 05-31-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sschlichter

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

Is the snake as Satan just a Christian thing then? Incidentally all snakes evolved from animals with legs, that's why some snakes have vestigial legs. God is apparently very slow in his punishments though as that would have taken millions of years.

The serpent is a metaphor that Christians use because the metaphor is used in Genesis.

The evolution of the snake is irrelevant. Your argument that because I am trying to draw meaning from the text in Gen 2 (instead of putting in), that I must also be a young earther is silly. You are at least the 3rd post to do that.

Isn't there a separate forum for that discussion.

~Steve

Actually that was me being humorous, it was meant to be a joke, not an indictment of your belief in the lunatic fringe of Christianity, or YEC as it's better known. Good to know some people don't live in a world of moonbeams and fairies.

Amaleq13 · 05-31-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

"For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." This does not mean a death in the same day. {It means the day you eat the fruit} you will die (i.e. the day you eat the fruit you will be cursed with death). Adam died much later but what do you think aging is? Aging is in fact a slow process leading to death. When Adam ate the fruit aging set in (ageing decomposing while yet alive) which lead to death. All living things are under this curse. Born to die. Ageing is one dying on his feet...ageing is the curse.

God did not lie the fact that Adam is long gone is proof of that.

Except that we've already read the passage that indicates neither Adam nor Eve were immortal. Try again.

firebug · 05-31-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

"For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." This does not mean a death in the same day. {It means the day you eat the fruit} you will die (i.e. the day you eat the fruit you will be cursed with death). Adam died much later but what do you think aging is? Aging is in fact a slow process leading to death. When Adam ate the fruit aging set in (ageing decomposing while yet alive) which lead to death. All living things are under this curse. Born to die. Ageing is one dying on his feet...ageing is the curse.

God did not lie the fact that Adam is long gone is proof of that.

So "you will die the day you eat the fruit" does *not* mean you die the same day you eat it? Sorry, but this does not make any sense.

I think it is clear from the context that god is threatening Adam/Eve with immediate death upon consumption of said fruit. The plan is to scare them off. Then he backs off and just punishes them with hard labour (in both agricultural and reproductive sense). If you want some common ground, suggest that it does not make him a liar, just a bad parent

juergen · 06-05-2008, 12:47 PM

It just dawned on me that God not having given the fruit of the tree of life means that, in the Genesis story, Adam and Eve were not immortal to begin with, and that they had already started aging from day six.

Therefore, I don't understand how the process of aging could have start after God threw them out of the garden. God didn't think they were immortal, otherwise he wouldn't have been afraid they also take of that fruit and live for ever if he didn't do something about it first.

mens_sana · 06-06-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juergen

Therefore, I don't understand how the process of aging could have start after God threw them out of the garden.

The ancients weren't bothered at all by inconsistancies in their stories — and this is a story that probably had many variations before it was committed to writing. Once an editor pulls the variations together, the single story is going to strain a bit when it accomodates its disparate (sometimes geographic) parts.

To expect a seamless account is the heritage of a much later era — and an imposition on the text.

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06-05-2008, 12:47 PM	#94
juergen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: South America Posts: 1,856	It just dawned on me that God not having given the fruit of the tree of life means that, in the Genesis story, Adam and Eve were not immortal to begin with, and that they had already started aging from day six. Therefore, I don't understand how the process of aging could have start after God threw them out of the garden. God didn't think they were immortal, otherwise he wouldn't have been afraid they also take of that fruit and live for ever if he didn't do something about it first.

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