Johnny Skeptic

It doesn't matter since God did not choose Jews to be his chosen people. There is not any historical evidence at all that indicates that Jews are God's chosen people. You failed to establish otherwise several other threads.

It doesn't matter. No God inspired Bible prophecies. If a God were to inspire prophecies, he would inspire prophecies that are difficult to refute, not easy to refute. For instance, if the Bible contained many prophecies regarding when and where some natural disasters would occur, month, day, and year, prophecies of that quality would be difficult to refute. It would be a very simple matter for a God to inspire much better prophecies than any prophecies that are in the Bible. There would be no need for a God to needlessly cause confusion when he could easily inspire prophecies that are difficult to refute.

If you were able to predict the future, and you wanted to convince as many people as possible that you were able to predict the future, there is no way that you would choose predictions that were of the poor quality of Bible prophecies. You would take a lesson from the confusion that the Bible has caused and make much better predictions.

One of your biggest problems is that you do not have a reasonable motive for why God has caused a lot of needless confusion by refusing to inspire prophecies of better quality. Bible prophecy is one of the very best reasons why people should reject fundamentalist Christianity.

Do you really expect to convince any skeptic that you are right merely by making speculative declarations and guesses? "The Bible says this or that" IS NOT credible evidence. Everyone already knows what the Bible says.

Sheshbazzar

Garbage theology, sold by the greedy for gain, to the superstitious and ignorant who desire to have their itching ears scratched.
I sympathise with your misgivings lyncanthrope, although it took me the better part of a lifetime to realise that I was being had.
And was being cheated out of the true joys of life by these despicable peddlers of gloom and doom, the entire negative thing;
Things are bad and are soon only going to get worse, -give us your money- so we can expand our Chicken Little -The Sky is Falling Ministries,
but soon enough we'll just sing for joy while we get to watch others burn burn burn.
Sick sick sick!
And yet "educated" a$$holes think they are just terrific scholars when they cleverly drag out the writing of ancient religious wackos to "prove" some perverse and perverted theological point.
What a wonderful world it will be when the last of these ethical degenerates finally croaks off, and their garbage beliefs are at long last confined to the dustbins of human history.

jab

Hairy ticks, Brazilian-waxed ticks--they're all the same to me.

I recall in the late 50s-early 60s when "The Rapture" and the result Reign of Terror on Earth was a minority stream among American fundamentalists. The ascendency of "The Rapture" seems congruent with an intersection of the ecstatic branch of evangelicals and the prophecy-focused branch of the fundamentalists, with teh influence of hippie Christian cults looking for an alternative to mind-bending drug tripping, Scientology fantasy, and Eastern mysticism.

juergen

It's the only protestant eschatological view I've ran into here in Paraguay, knowing people out of different denominations. Even as a kid, I remember a pastor explaining to us how pret-trib rapture would happen.

Well as you know, if it hasn't happened, it only means it hasn't happened yet.

bacht

I think the 1967 and 1973 Arab-Israeli wars inspired the modern versions of rapture theology in the U.S. (Jerry Falwell et al)

rhutchin

The rapture comes from verses such as these.

And when [Jesus] had spoken these things, while [the disciples] beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:16-17)

As to the timing issue, some refer to these verses.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44)

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:48)

Martha saith unto him, I know that [Lazarus] shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. (John 11:24)

Given the supposed clarity of these verses, there are some that use them as a reference point to any interpretation of end time events.

The general situation at the end before Christ returns seems best described here:

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt 24:37-39)

I am not sure what troubles you about this doctrine. Any chance that you have thought about it more and can elaborate?

The Dagda

Let's not forget they are talking about the dead rising from the grave in most of those quotes or Sheol.

I think the rapturists kind of lost credibility when they started predicting the date it would happen. That is the most absurd part? I mean no one is supposed to know when it happens.

Clivedurdle

There are some very interesting what ifs here.

If Adolf had caught a bullet in WW1 we might not have an Israel now, Islam may not have gone fundi, the fundis may not have become politically important in the US and the whole planet may slowly be going modernist and secular.

rhutchin

Perhaps. Where the dead come from seems of no real importance. Their physical bodies could have been obliterated in a fire or eaten by animals. The context only says that the dead will be raised and that those who are dead will be raised before the living are raised.

Whether no one knows in the sense of having specific knowledge is a point of debate. Certainly, key events that can be identified and known are described in the Bible. That no one knows in the experiential sense is true; no one has experienced judgment before God nor knows what it really will be like.

Johnny Skeptic

Well look who is back.

Since the rapture is not going to occur, your interpretations of the Bible are obviously irrelevant. The same goes for interpretations of the Koran, or of any other religious book.

I know what you are up to. You want to discuss the Bible in the hopes that it will influence some skeptics. You are well aware of the Scripture that says "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." You believe that just hearing the word of God can influence people. Unfortunately for you, no skeptic at this forum will be influenced by you quoting the Bible. Even if every skeptic at this forum agreed with your opinions regarding the rapture, they would still be skeptics.

Are you interested in having some discussions at the General Religious Discussions Forum?