Lord Vader

Hello all. This thread is directed towards Christians.

I'm currently in the process of reading all 3 monotheistic books. The Torah, The Bible, and The Qu'ran. I have finished reading the QU'ran and am now onto the Bible. Someone directed me towards Apocrypha and I found the information on the website incredibly interesting. For example, the website speaks of the gospel of Barnabas in which it states that Jesus did not die on the cross and Jesus was not God incarnate. Here are some other contradictions :

1. The Gospel of Barnabas says Jesus stated "I am not the Messiah" which contradicts both the Bible (Matthew 16) and Quran (Sura 5).
2. It calls Paul apostate, circumcision is necessary for Salvation
3. Jesus did not die on the cross, Judas did in his place , and Jesus is not God incarnate.
4. "Jesus was born when Pilate was governor"
5. "Jesus sailed to Nazareth" which of course has no seaport.

My question, is there any truth in the site I link and if so how would this information affect modern Christianity ?

Toto

What is truth in this case?

The Apocrypha were rejected by the early Church fathers for various reasons, most of which are still good as far as they are concerned, so I doubt that anything on that site would affect modern Christianity.

Chris Weimer

Gospel of Barnabas is most assuredly a late medieval/early Rennaisance-era forgery by confused Muslims.

David Vestal

I was under the impression that the Apocrypha was made canon at the council of Nicea, and was even included in the original KJV. Am I wrong? If I'm not, of which "early Church fathers" do you speak, and are they representative of the early church?

Peter Kirby

Double meaning of "Apocrypha" there. "Apocrypha" can be used to refer to the seven books + septuagintal additions (1+2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, etc.) found in the Catholic and Orthodox "Deuterocanon," or it can be used to describe the wide array of Jewish and Christian nonbiblical works of literature, what Ehrman calls "lost scriptures."

best wishes,
Peter Kirby

Aquila Pacis

Check out the two books by Schneemelcher:

New Testament Apocrypha: Gospels and Related Writings

New Testament Apocrypha, Vol. 2: Writings Relating to the Apostles Apocalypses and Related Subjects

They'll give you a magnificent overview of almost all apocryphal writings, including fragments, translations, reliquies, comments, proposed times and places of origin etc.

About Jesus not dying on the cross: cf. Qu'ran sura 4.157 which clearly states that Jesus was not crucified. An effigy was instead presented.

about the Messiah-question (The Epistle of Barnabas): I think there is something very similar in the canonical Gospels (I would have to look that up). But if the Gospels contain a similar episode, it would mean that the Epistle of Barnabas quotes the canonical Gospels and was probably written much later than the first century AD.

The thing about Jesus sailing, being on the sea etc. is a very problematic issue, even in the canonical Gospels. I think in Mark it says "Galileean Sea"...but looking at it geographically, there is no "sea", only lakes. There are three alternatives: a) the Gospel authors didn't know what they were writing about and/or made up most of the story; b) they simply mistranslated or misinterpreted earlier sources (oral or written); c) the story itself was translocated, and the facts (like "sea") had to be adapted, which - in this case - didn't seem possible.

...I will look up the Messiah episode.

Aquila Pacis

1. The Gospel of Barnabas has been known in the 18th century, probably written and/or translated in/into Italian and Spanish. It's a true pseudo-gospel, written in the 16th century. Apparently it belongs in the realm of Morisco history. Most probably, older traditions (of Jewish-Christian origin) have not been worked into this gospel. [taken from Schneemelcher, see above] So this "Gospel" is absolutely useless if you want to research into early Christianity.

2. Messiah-question in Mark 8.29-30: "And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Messiah. And he charged them that they should tell no man of him." In the last sentence, Jesus clearly rejects the title "Messiah" by telling them to keep it a secret, in other words Jesus could have also said: "I'm not the Messiah - at least not yet."

3. The "Sea of Galilee" is mentioned e.g. in Mark 1.16. The interesting thing here is that Jesus reaches Caphernaum afterwards which is situated at the Lake Gennesaret. Nevertheless the authors of Mark write "Sea of Galilee".

Peter Kirby

Please distinguish between the Epistle of Barnabas (1st-2nd cent.) and the Gospel of Barnabas (medieval).

best wishes,
Peter Kirby

Aquila Pacis

Ooops...got them messed up. Previous post edited. Thanks for the hint.

Aquila Pacis

Addendum: from Tertullian (in "Adversus Marcion" 4.42) we learn that Marcion saw the crucified Christ as a phantasm (direct translation: "apparition").

So...why do so many - Christians, non-Christians, Marcion, the Qu'ran, Nestorius etc. - at least until 325 AD reject Jesus' crucifixion? Maybe because he wasn't crucified at all? (The Romans usually strangled their victims before crucifiying them. So even if Marcion and Qu'ran are wrong, the depiction of Jesus' crucifixion in the NT is utterly unrealistic...and a crucifixion "against Roman custom" would have surely made it into the history books.)