Steven Carr

This comes from Romans 10.

We Brits like our understatements, but Paul seems to be a master of understatement.

Allegedly, a disciple betrayed Jesus and the Jews put Jesus on a mock trial, before handing him over to be killed and demanding of Pilate that Jesus be crucified.

And Paul sums this up as 'Not all Israelites accepted the good news.'

I think we Brits could take a lesson or two from Paul in how to understate things.

Could Paul really look upon statements like 'His blood be upon us and our children' as 'Not all the Israelites accepted the good news.'

Toto

You should know how this game is played by now.

If you complain about some obvious contradiction, historcists will deny that they rely on the gospels as history.

The idea that the Jews persecuted Jesus is not sufficiently embarrassing to Christians to be accepted as verified history. So it never happened.

Paul thougt that the archons crucified Jesus The Israelites could not see that this was good news.

andrewcriddle

may be a valid paraphrase of Romans 10:16 but the text literally says .

Maybe Paul just meant that hearing the good news does not automatically mean accepting it.

Andrew Criddle

Steven Carr

Indeed. You think he might have slipped in a few words about what not accepting it had led to - the death of Jesus?

bacht

If Paul was really Marcion his good news was that there was another god besides YHWH, hardly what most Jews wanted to hear. Similarly if the good news was the coming end of the world, would normal people really want to hear this?

Seems like there were a lot of religious wackos running around the eastern empire

aa5874

The NT Canon or the Church writings are NOT about "archons" but about Jews who supposedly crucified Jesus called the Messiah.

If Paul wrote first about "archons" then those who wrote the Jesus crucifixion story afterwards did not think "Paul" referred to "archons".

And if Paul wrote late, then those who wrote FIRST did not write that "archons" crucified Jesus.

But, in any event, we have stories that need corroboration external of the NT Canon and the Church writings but have none.

The Pauline story that Jews rejected the good news has NOT been confirmed since no external source mentioned that there were Jews who preached any "Good News" that Jesus was crucified and before the Fall of the Jewish Temple.

Doug Shaver

Paul seems not to have heard about any of that.

Wonder why? Maybe none of it really happened, and nobody ever claimed it happened until many years after Paul's time?

Steven Carr

Paul backs up his reasoning with the good old 'argument from authority'

Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) "or 'Who will descend into the deep?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

But even when producing arguments from authority, Paul never argues 'Jesus said. I win.'

The 'righteousness that is by faith' says things, but nothing will induce Paul to quote his Lord and Saviour.

andrewcriddle

Maybe Paul does imply this. Passages in Romans 11 about how the failure of the Jews had led to salvation for the Gentiles eg can be interpreted as saying that the deliverance of Jesus up to death by the Jewish authorities was, in God's plan, the means by which the Gentile world could be offered salvation.

Andrew Criddle

aa5874

But there is really no need to guess. A Pauline writer has already written this.

1Co 15:17 - The Pauline salvation was based DIRECTLY on the RESURRECTION.