mountainman

I would like to discuss the history of educational institutions over the last 400 years specifically to identify how students
have been influenced by the Christian hegemon and its adamant stance upon the existence of the historical Jesus.

Ideally I would like to tabulate on a century by century basis the amount of control (direct and indirect) that the
Christian Churches (of various denominations) had over the education system for the last four centuries leading up to the present.





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Toto

Pete:

The historical Jesus was an anti-Christian hypothesis developed first by Deists and promoted by non-believers and less than orthodox Christians.

Try to find a copy of Charlotte Allen's The Human Christ (or via: amazon.co.uk). She has a very good history of the development of the idea of a historical Jesus.

May I close this misbegotten thread? What more is there to say?

outhouse

Pete

Have you taken a class or even followed a Professor?

Would it not be fair to know what their teaching before making these conclusions?


Here is a great resource that should be a sticky here.

http://www.virtualprofessors.com/int...lst-152-martin


I'm about half way through his lectures, and its great information.

Pete, he flat tells you, trust no one! including me.


If you understood what's really going you might find that apologetics hate the HJ because it disproves their mythology completely. apologetics oppose a HJ in favor of a BJ.

mountainman

The OP is about who controlled the academic institutions during the last 400 years at which the major players in the theological arena were educated.

A far more appropriate reference is:

List of modern universities in Europe (1801–1945)

There must be an equivalent list for the US.

The idea is to examine the educational institutions (and if possible their sponsors) to determine who ultimately controlled them.

For example, from the Europe list above.

University of Strasbourg



The idea is to try and get an idea and gauge as to how influential the church was in the earlier centuries and how that influence has waned in recent times.

However it must be stressed that the centuries prior to the 17th witnessed all sorts of church related oppression if their dogma was questioned.

For example:



It is obvious that scholars of these earlier centuries were not going to put into writing any ideas which questioned Jesus and his Hegemon.

For good reason.





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Toto

You're not going to get that from a list of colleges. Theology is only taught in a select group of seminaries and colleges.

If you are really serious about this, take a group of scholars and look at their educational backgrounds. Harvard and Yale in the US would probably figure in the list. Both were started as religious schools, but have not been under religious control in the time the current generation of scholars were educated.

Religious conservatives claim that US Universities are under the control of secular humanists and atheists. Some of them won't send their children to such schools.

mountainman

Another approach is to examine the blasphemy laws of the countries which think of themselves as "Christian".

While such laws were in place by the state against blasphemy, we are not likely to find any professional academics questioning the HJ.

Does Erhman mention this?

Let's start with the UK.


Blasphemy law in the United Kingdom




Blasphemy law in the United States







εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Toto

There are no enforceable laws against blasphemy in the US and there are virtually no laws in modern England. None have ever been applied to mythicists to my knowledge. This is not a current issue.

mountainman

The OP is attempting to gain a perspective on this issue in an historical sense covering the four centuries from 1613 to 2013. What has been established is that while it seems to be a fact that state and national laws in many countries (not all) have been essentially repealed in the last of these four centuries, for the period of the first three centuries (i.e. 1613 to 1913) there were provisions in most countries and their states that blasphemy was a punishable offence under the law (of the country or state).



Nor to my knowledge, but the point being made in the OP is that the Christian hegemon was essentially enforced by anti-blasphemy laws for the first three of the four centuries being examined. Therefore, especially in the earlier of these four centuries, when people were being literally executed for speaking out against the Christian hegemonic interpretation of what may be said (or written) about Jesus, and what may not.

It should be noted that some of the blasphemy laws I have read about in the recent days do provide a distinction between outright satire and disdain against Jesus (and the Church and the Bible etc) and "scholarly quibbling". The eariest "mythicists" as such did not outright deny the historical existence of Jesus.

Here is what the Jesus Myth page on WIKI says at the moment:


No of course not, as has been demonstrated by the repealing of these blasphemy laws, but only in the most recent century of the four centuries being examined.

Educational institutions were obviously naturally sensitive to the national and state laws, which protected the Christian hegemon for the centuries from 1613 to 1913. Only in this last century (1913-2013) have these laws relaxed and the rise of an open discussion about the Jesus myth theory been permissible (under the law).

Does Erhman mention any of this at all in "Did Jesus exist"?




εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

mountainman

In his new book for the converted Ehrman makes the claim that the idea that Jesus did not exist is a modern notion, and in fact was made up in the 18th century. Here are a few quotes:



The idea that Jesus did not exist is not a modern notion.
The lack of ancient precedents is able to be explained.
It was not made up in the 18th century.

It was suppressed by ecclesiastical and national blasphemy laws which were relaxed in the 18th century.
After the ecclesiastical and national blasphemy laws relaxed, some people began to think about the evidence.


The Christian hegemon does have its inertia, but is now largely unprotected by these abysmal blasphemy laws.

Hence the recent appearance and value of works like for example Monty Python's "Life of Brian".




So one answer to the question as to why have students been influenced by the Christian hegemon
and its adamant stance upon the existence of the historical Jesus may be answered.

Until recently the Christian hegemon could protect itself by law.

All students and teachers are taught to respect the law.






εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Toto

As was shown in a thread from 2011, the Life of Brian reflects ideas from the historical Jesus:

Life of Brian subjected to scholarly analysis

and an admiration for the character of Jesus: As quoted here

However, after an early brainstorming stage, and despite being non-believers, they agreed that Jesus was "definitely a good guy" and found nothing to mock in his actual teachings: "He's not particularly funny, what he's saying isn't mockable, it's very decent stuff..." said Idle later.

These days, students and teachers are taught to question everything, to overturn old paradigms.

You've got nothing here, Pete.