gawdzdice

Man didn’t fall from grace. He was tripped. Neither Adam nor Eve sinned when they ate the forbidden fruit.

The Bible account is clear. God communicated His will to Adam when He told Adam not to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. We know that Eve got the message as well. When the Serpent asked her why she wasn’t eating the fruit, Eve parroted what God had said. “Do not eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or on that day you will surely die.�

The Serpent predicted that Adam and Eve would not die, but that they would become like God, knowing the difference between good and evil. Eve ate and gave some to Adam, who ate as well.

What happened next was immediate and far-reaching. Death was born. Chaos, entropy, labor pains, disease, and human evil became the Planet’s plagues.

God immediately expelled the humans from Paradise. As Eve’s extra punishment, earned by offering to share the fruit with Adam, God mandated that wives would be forever subject to their husbands. To this day Eve’s male descendants in many cultures enforce that punishment.

The Bible tells us that neither Adam nor Eve received the knowledge of good and evil until after they had acted. They didn’t know that going against God’s command was evil until after they had taken the bite. When they disobeyed God, Adam and Eve were no more capable of sin than a newborn baby is capable of crime.

Our species has been Supremely screwed. The mother of all class action suits must become our highest priority. Imagine the potential damages and consider the Defendant’s unlimited ability to compensate.

There isn’t a lawyer in the world without the necessary ego. A single Sunday’s offerings would make a healthy retainer.

Jesus Himself said “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.�

But who the Hell will be the Judge?

xllb - 071004

Common_Cents

Actually it could be argued that Adam and Eve had far more advantages and sinned in the face of pristine truth. Adam and Eve were bestowed dominion over the globe and they conversed and walked with God and disobeyed him anyway. They disobeyed despite living in harmony and peace, despite love and fellowship. They instead went their own path.


Also interesting note Eve added something that God didn't say. She said that God commanded that she couldn't even touch it. Already she was distorting the truth.

Vorkosigan

Is there something relevant to BC&H here? This moving in the GRD direction.

Chili

The bible account is clear but you are reading it wrong. Man fell from grace when he ate form the tree of knowledge and upon this knowledge Adam and Eve were created. This makes Adam and Eve the second identity of man and that is the identity that was banned from Eden.

Death was not born but our conscious memory was born and this is what would remind us that someday we will die in our temporal existence outside of Eden.

Godfather

Did Adam and Eve really make a choice. If you really think about the factors that come into play here, such as God's omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence (He goes out looking in the garden for the sinful little humans), you might find that the choice had already been made. What exaclty is the knowlege of good and evil? What does that mean? If you don't know what good or evil is can you make a wrong decision? This is a very major section of the Bible here. It explains our very beginnings. Sadly it feels rushed and very illogical.

Chili

It's a "genisis" that is needed to explain what happens when salvation comes our way later in life. Salvation is a natural event that can only come about if the fall of man is a reality . . . which now is the best thing that ever happened to mankind for it made us rational beings who can think and gain dominion in the world.

Vorkosigan

This will probably get more play in GRD

Agnostic Theist

If God is all-merciful, how is it that we have come to forgive woman before Him?

If He is all-just, how is it that the offspring of Adam and Eve must bear their punishment, even the Virgin Mary?

Jon Promnitz

Dan Barker says it best in his song, You Can't Win With Original Sin. "..You can't win with original sin. And it doesn't even matter, how intelligent or kind you may have been, you just can't win. It was all over before it began, you were doomed at the fall of man, you can't win." You can listen to some of it here: http://www.ffrf.org/products/music/

Prodigal Son

What? Are you saying that (according to the Bible) God created people before Adam & Eve, and these people used knowlegde gained from eating the fruit to create Adam & Eve?