Clivedurdle

Thoughts?

DCHindley

Hmmm,

How many vists do you think there should be?

DCH

dog-on

Once, but the Jews were not impressed.

Clivedurdle

But in Acts he witnessed Stephen's martyrdom....

andrewcriddle

Paul claims in Galatians to have been to Jerusalem only twice during the period after his conversion (late 30's CE) and before writing Galatians (early 50's CE).

This is quite compatible with the claims in Acts that Paul was in Jerusalem both before his conversion and also after writing Galatians.

The real problem is that Acts seems to have three vists to Jerusalem in the period covered by Galatians (Acts 9 Acts 11:30+12:25 and Acts 15) possibly the Acts 11:30+12:25 visit is a duplicate version of Acts 15.

Andrew Criddle

Doug Shaver

He himself mentions two occasions, and we don't have any other sources that are worth anything.

DCHindley

On the serious side, do you feel the need to limit yourself to the number Paul mentions himself in the surviving letters (and also decide which of them are really his), or the number of times stated in Acts?

Or are you willing to speculate about the traveling habits of the man (which might have taken him to Jeusalem several more times not mentioned in either letters or Acts)? This would require one to assess the man's likely occupation, and then use that to speculate on potential travel associated with that Job.

Example: Acts says Paul was a "tent maker." I would associate tents with a) military (Roman, Herodian kings and princes, maybe even the royal family of Adiabene who had converted to Judaism around this time, or even for Arabian princes), b) caravan traders (think Damascus area and Nabatean Arabia), c) perhaps awnings for public theaters or high-end private dwellings (again Roman, Greek or Herodian households).

This would be an artisan occupation. That would mean he likely had patrons, but who? In both Acts an the letters, Paul seems completely at ease traveling all about the Mediterranean coast, both by land and sea, and seems to be able to interact comfortably with civic officials and Roman soldiers. If he had a powerful patron, he may also have developed contacts all over the region, or could call on important people who had a connection with his patron(s). Robert Eisenman has suggested that he was a grain buyer for the Adiabene princes (although based on similarly names folks named in Josephus, this seems speculative as the letters offer no hint of this).

In this kind of scenario, he could have been to Jerusalem dozens of times.

DCH

dog-on

"again" is not original and is part of the large interpolation in the previous verses.

aa5874

Certainly, the veracity of the Pauline writer is not corroborated by sources that are worth nothing. The Pauline writers cannot be deemed to be truthful because the author of Acts wrote fiction.

And further, Acts was presented as an authentic source for the post conversion activities of Saul/Paul. Acts of the Apostles must be of major significance in understanding Saul/Paul and the Pauline writers.

Before Acts of the Apostles was canonised, it must be assumed that the Church was aware of the information found in Acts about Saul/Paul. The Church writers even claimed the author of Acts was a close companion of the PAULINE writer and traveled and preached with him all over the Roman Empire.

Acts of the Apostles is an extremely significant canonised writing.

Now, there are massive differences in chronology of Acts and the Pauline Epistles with respect to Saul/Paul visits to Jerusalem and who he met in Jerusalem.

IN Acts, there is no mention that Saul/Paul went to Arabia after his conversion, he was in Damascus where he immediately began preaching about Jesus until he fled, hiding in a basket, and went to Jerusalem where he met the apostles and was in and out of Jerusalem or was in Judaea for a considerable time.

INTERNALLY,it is the PAULINE writers' words against the words of the author of Acts. The matter cannot be resolved both authors are known or have been deduced to be fiction writers, and the Church writers appears to have given erroneous information about the authorship and date of writing of the Pauline Epistles and Acts of the Apostles.

Clivedurdle

When the Romans built Chester, the Legion that did it had a full set of necessary skills available - there were not the specialist units we have now, most soldiers could turn their hands to most things, as could the officers.

I wonder if these tales of a tent maker who is able to travel freely and claims to be a Roman citizen actually helps date when this stuff was written.