Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 11-06-2005, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Fifth, divide et impera (divide and rule).

One of the basic tactics that lowers the costs of occupation of a country is to find here an important GPI (Group of Political Interest) (conflicted with other GPIs) that will support the rule of the occupier and pay some costs of occupation. It is very easy to find that group in a feudal country, rather hard in a populistic country, and almost impossible in a democratic country.

Therefore Rome could use the tactic of divide and impera against almost any enemy, and no enemy could use that tactic against Rome.

Roman History

Are both Christianity and Islam the result of Roman political experiments to divide and rule that went badly wrong?

seven8s · 11-06-2005, 11:23 AM

The English is so poor in the link it's not even worth the read. Whoever wrote the material can't be a scholar, else the material wouldn't be so poorly written. As such, why would I read the material? IOW's poor quality = no credibility.

Clivedurdle · 11-07-2005, 11:48 AM

The link was only meant as an example - (too quick search on Google!)

I would like discussion about my question:

Quote:

Are both Christianity and Islam the result of Roman political experiments to divide and rule that went badly wrong?

In both these religions we have histories that were and are propagated by the believers. But what really happened? Was political experimentation - divide and rule the Jews by introducing a sect that says Render unto Caesar, and divide and rule the Arabian Peninsula by the Byzantines (otherwise known as Eastern Roman Empire!) by intoducing one god (Caesar?)

I am not arguing this is the sole cause, but could it be one factor that has been ignored in trying to work out why these religions were so successful?

Sarpedon · 11-07-2005, 12:23 PM

Were mormonism and scientology invented by the US government to help rule the lawless western part of the country?

It seems obvious to me that cults are born and prosper on their own, in spite of governement interference. Parsimony and common sense say no to the OP. How would making extra religions succeed where the military might, wealth, cultural advantages etc of the Roman empire failed?

Religion from conspiracy theories are fun, but not convincing. Did you hear the one about how Amenhotep, son of Hapu, (prime minister of Pharaoh Amenhotep III) wrote the Pentuech to create a religion that would forever worship his master? (now called Yahweh)

Clivedurdle · 11-08-2005, 03:50 AM

Different political and historical contexts between America and Rome!

Divide and rule is accepted as an important tactic of Imperial Rome isn't it? The Romans were having big problems with the Jews, why should they not sponsor a sect and feed in some pro-roman attitudes? - I thought it was accepted the gospels have some very strong pro-Roman themes.

I am not even arguing it was that conscious, it might have been a normal part of their strategies to research the various groups and feed in party lines to the Roman's advantage.

You then have a normal co-evolutionary arms race occur, and it looks like xianity had some major survival advantages.

Early genetic engineering to improve the stock?

Clivedurdle · 11-08-2005, 04:04 AM

Is there a huge underestimation of the political, strategic and technological know how of Rome occurring?

We have the personal intervention of several emperors in Palestine during the period of the birth of xianity! A major branch of xianity is based in Rome and the Pope has taken Caesar's title! Chance?

The ideas of Sun Tzu - that if you are actually fighting your strategies have gone wrong - and Macchiavelli - say one thing and do another - were not new ideas!

Why should not the Romans have experimented with some political ideas? They were good at breeding, why not breed religions?

They could not predict they would end up with Frankenstein's monster!

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11-06-2005, 11:23 AM	#2
seven8s Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 727	The English is so poor in the link it's not even worth the read. Whoever wrote the material can't be a scholar, else the material wouldn't be so poorly written. As such, why would I read the material? IOW's poor quality = no credibility.

11-07-2005, 12:23 PM	#4
Sarpedon Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota, the least controversial state in the le Posts: 8,446	Were mormonism and scientology invented by the US government to help rule the lawless western part of the country? It seems obvious to me that cults are born and prosper on their own, in spite of governement interference. Parsimony and common sense say no to the OP. How would making extra religions succeed where the military might, wealth, cultural advantages etc of the Roman empire failed? Religion from conspiracy theories are fun, but not convincing. Did you hear the one about how Amenhotep, son of Hapu, (prime minister of Pharaoh Amenhotep III) wrote the Pentuech to create a religion that would forever worship his master? (now called Yahweh)

11-08-2005, 03:50 AM	#5
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Different political and historical contexts between America and Rome! Divide and rule is accepted as an important tactic of Imperial Rome isn't it? The Romans were having big problems with the Jews, why should they not sponsor a sect and feed in some pro-roman attitudes? - I thought it was accepted the gospels have some very strong pro-Roman themes. I am not even arguing it was that conscious, it might have been a normal part of their strategies to research the various groups and feed in party lines to the Roman's advantage. You then have a normal co-evolutionary arms race occur, and it looks like xianity had some major survival advantages. Early genetic engineering to improve the stock?

11-08-2005, 04:04 AM	#6
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Is there a huge underestimation of the political, strategic and technological know how of Rome occurring? We have the personal intervention of several emperors in Palestine during the period of the birth of xianity! A major branch of xianity is based in Rome and the Pope has taken Caesar's title! Chance? The ideas of Sun Tzu - that if you are actually fighting your strategies have gone wrong - and Macchiavelli - say one thing and do another - were not new ideas! Why should not the Romans have experimented with some political ideas? They were good at breeding, why not breed religions? They could not predict they would end up with Frankenstein's monster!

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