Hawkpeter

To what degree is there any evidence to show the Roman Empire was becoming more secular before Constantine was able to take control of the empire and unite it under the christian religion?

Secular societies and agnosticism in general seem to be under threat from religious fanaticals throughout history.... in the present there shows no signs of religious zealotry abating.

Without science and skepticism, was it impossible for the Roman Empire to avoid this social reform under Constantine or was he merely going with a flow that was already taking hold of christianity over the lands?

Toto

"Secular" is a modern concept. Constantine had three official religions for the Roman Empire, and there were many more around. If Christianity hadn't won out, it would have been another cult not much different.

There were a few Greek philosophers that modern day skeptics consider forerunners, but even they called for worshipping the local gods, and there was no broad secularist movement.

Wayne P

Thinking that the Roman Empire was secular and a waste land of non religious people around the time of Constantine is buying into one of the oldest Christian propaganda lines. The empire was, IIRC, roughly 10% christian and 90% other. The various ancient cults were still active, their problem was that they were so accepting of other religions, ie Christianity. Whereas Christianity is not accepting of other religions.

Just like the myth of an empty Palestine during the early 1900's, it's a myth that the empire was secular, in our sense of the word, with no decernable religion at the time of Constantine.

Of course once one hegamonic religion gets control of the rudder of state, that was the goodbye kiss to other, older, religions and ways of thought. So, to answer the OP, he did it by force, because he was the Emperor. His sons and successors were much more imbued with religious zea than he, and they proved much more terrifying to the pagans that didn't convert.

It is still strange how the same church that shut down other religions once it got the power of the state was the same church that for 300 years had argued for religious tolerance from the pagan emperors. It really didn't take long for the persecuted to become the persecutors.

andrewcriddle

It does seem that much of the real serious pagan religious belief and paractice of the Roman Empire was based around very localized beliefs and cults. Worshipping the Gods and Goddesses of your own city or region.

This type of localized paganisn does seem (outside Egypt) to have suffered some sort of serious crisis from the beginning of the 3rd century CE onwards for reasons separate from the rise of Christianity. There are various attempts by the Emperors to introduce some Empire wide universal pagan religion, starting probably with the weird attempts of Elagabalus around 220 and ending with Julian's attempt to promote his own 'New Age Paganism' around 360.

However Christianity succeeded under Imperial patronage in becoming an Empire wide religion in a way that the pagan attempts did not. How far some type of universal pagan religion was a real possibility with the right sort of Imperial support is a difficult question. Personally I have my doubts.

Andrew Criddle

Hawkpeter

So the Christian religion is better suited to state wide implementation than other pagan cults? (I suppose this case at least stands up)

Is idol worship as found in Hinduism perhaps closer to the types of localised town idolatry and its off-shoots found in the second century Empire?

Perhaps really what I'm asking is about how Christianity is better suited to sustaining the megalomania of popes and emperors as apposed to idolatry based religions. Is it better suited at all?

Diogenes the Cynic

I don't know that it was necessarily better suited, it was just the incidental cult of preference for the guy that had all the power.

Another thing that probably helped was Xianity's ability to subsume other cults and traditions within itself.

Huon

Diocletian, emperor (284-305, d. 313), religion conservative (Jupiter, Hercules), anti-manichean from 297, anti-christian from 303.
Constantius Chlorus emperor (305-306), pagan, monotheist, (Sol Invictus ?) his son Constantine.
Maximianus, emperor (286-305, and 306-310), his son Maxentius, his daughter Fausta.
Fausta, daughter of Maximianus, married to Constantine in 307, killed in 324.
Helena, mother of Constantine, second wife (concubine) of Constantius Chlorus.
Maxentius, emperor (306-312) son of Maximianus.
Galerius, emperor (293-311), son of a priestess of Sol Invictus, anti-christian, married to Valeria, daughter of Diocletian.
Licinius, emperor (307-325), married in 313 to Constantia, sister of Constantine.
Maximinus Daïa, emperor (308-313), nephew of Galerius, anti-christian.
Pope Miltiades (sometimes Melchiades) c. 311- 314
The Milvian Bridge, 312
Edict of toleratio of Milan 311 and 313
Council of Arles 314

In 301 St. Gregory the Illuminator converted King of Armenia Tiridate 3 who founded the first Christian nation. This conversion stressed the rupture of the Armenian king with Persia, which was an enemy of Rome. This was the first example of a successful alliance between a political power and the local christian leaders. Manicheism was then protected by the kings of Persia, and accordingly, was not welcome in the Roman empire.

When Diocletian and Maximianus abdicated in 305, Constantius Chlorus and Galerius were promoted from Caesar (2nd class emperor) to Augustus (1st class). Two new Caesars were nominated, a certain Severus, a friend of Galerius, and Maximinus Daïa, a nephew of Galerius.

Constantine, son of Constantius Chlorus and Maxentius, son of Maximianus, did not appreciate the trick. In july 306, Constantius Chlorus died in Eboracum (York), and Constantine, who was with his father, took the title of Augustus with the support of the local army. Then, in october 306, Maxentius, son of Maximianus, took also the title of Augustus, with the support of the Italian legions, but without the agreement of his father, who came back as Augustus for his own account.

In 308, the vicar of Africa Domitius Alexander rebelled against the central power, and that was another Augustus. Too much for the other emperors. They had a meeting in Carnuntum (40km east of Vienna, Austria) with Diocletian. He nominated Licinius, an officer and friend of Galerius, as another Augustus. Constantine and Maximinus Daïa were confirmed, but only as Caesars, which did not satisfy them, of course.

In 310, Maximinus Daïa took again the title of Augustus, and Galerius was compelled to accept what he could not prevent. Maximianus had no troops, and was obliged to find shelter in Trier (on the Moselle River) close by Constantine, who had married Fausta in 307. But Constantine had no need of his stepfather, they quarelled, Maximianus fled to Marseille, where he was pushed to suicide (310) by Constantine. Fausta kept her feelings for herself. Maxentius, son of Maximianus, proclaimed Constantine a public enemy.

In 311 Galerius died of a hideous sickness (due to his sins against the Christians ), but before dying he published a decree of tolerance towards the Christians. The vicar of Africa Domitius Alexander was killed in 311 by a prefect of Maxentius, who had conquered North Africa. At that time (311) only four emperors remained, Constantine and Maxentius in Occident, and Maximinus Daïa and Licinius in Orient.

With the Edict of toleratio of Milan (311), the emperors Constantine and Licinius gave Pope Miltiades the right to receive back, through the prefect of the city of Rome, all ecclesiastical buildings and possessions which had been confiscated during the persecutions of emperors Diocletian, Galerius, and Maximinus Daïa.

Constantine attacked Maxentius, started from Gaul, crossed the Alps, took Turin and Verone, and went down towards Rome. The decisive battle took place at the Milvian Bridge (312). Maxentius was drowned in the river. Constantine’s warriors had a magic sign engraved on their shields, (a cross, and the phrase “in hoc signo vinces�, “with that sign, you shall win�). Most of the warriors were pagans, though.

The emperors Constantine and Licinius confirmed in 313 the Edict of toleratio of Milan (311).

Constantine was paid back next year (314) by Pope Sylvester I. The Council of Arles anathematized the soldiers who would quit the army, even during peace, since “the government is no more persecuting.�

Wayne P

Except for Emperor worship most religion depended on the cities themselves to maintain the fabric and rituals of the various cults. And in those cities the richer folks were the ones to contribute money and time for the upkeep of the cults. It was considered and honor and duty for them.

The cults in the second, third and fourth centures were facing a crisis, but it wasn't a crisis of faith or any kind of theological problems it was simply financial. The cities and people responsible for the upkeep of the cults were running out of money, the taxes were getting higher and higher. Rituals and such were expensive and many traditional families that would normally have unerwritten these things were dying out or had sunk into poverty. Once the Emperors became Christian and the church had the imperial backing their followers wreaked havoc on the structures and rituals of the old religions.

The most that Julian, could do is try to establish an empire wide heirarchy to help spread out some of the imperial funds. Julian didn't stand a chance with his windmill tilting. After a couple of intolerant Christian, albeit Arian, Emperors the court was filled with Christians and Christian hangers on. This in itself would make a return to the old religion quite impossible.

An interesting, if disturbing, book to read on this period would be "Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries" by Ramsay Macmullen.

Huon

Already with Diocletian, the Empire was in trouble with many of its neighbors. On the Rhine, on the Danube, in Britain, in Gaul, in North Africa, in Egypt, the tetrarchs had to protect the frontier, or suppress revolts. They had also to face the Persian empire. Their army is estimated 450,000 men, and it seems that the empire could not afford that much on the long time. Diocletian solved temporarily the problem by compulsory methods. The landlords should provide recruits according to the surface of their lands. One man for one capitulum, or the corresponding money. The regular tax, annona, was not reduced for all that. Diocletian tried to fight the inflation of prices, by making better gold and silver money. This deflationist measure resulted in an economic crisis in 298. Diocletian issued a decree fixing maximum prices for the principal commodities in 303. Remember that the soldiers were paid in money (solidi, later) and that they were among the first victims of inflation. This decree was not effective. (we know well that, with many experimentations in history).

Coming to Maxentius, he had the same problems in Rome. His rule was enforced by the pretorians (soldiers) and supported by the lower classes, to a lesser extent. He had engaged in costly constructions of temples, and the Christians could not approve. As he needed money, he took it where it was. The rich and the senators did not like, of course. And he could not avoid a famine and an uprising. The repression is said to have killed 6,000 persons. So, his situation was not very brilliant when Constantine attacked him. An oracle had prohibited him to fight outside Rome, (and if oracles are vox dei they are often vox populi…). However, he went to the Milvian Bridge, was defeated, and killed. Constantine took with him the soldiers of Maxentius, who had not been very enthusiastic in the fight.