stuart shepherd

Why believe Paul???

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There are many scholars who will tell you that the Apostle Paul is the real father of Christianity. Without Paul, Christianity would have died out 2000 years ago.

But when you read about Paul, you have to ask yourself...Why should I believe this story?
The keystone of Paul's testimony is the Damascus road experience.
Firstly, Paul does not have the required 2 or 3 witnesses for his testimony to be considered as evidence.
Secondly, Paul was a murderer, guilty of felony murder in the death of Stephen. (acts chapter 7) This casts doubt on Paul's credibility.
But a close look at Paul's own testimony reveals the fabrication.
In Acts, Paul tells the story of his Damascus road experience three times.


A good story gets better with every retelling. Much better.

At Acts chapter 9, the Apostle Paul tells the story of his Damascus road experience. We all know the story so I will just copy the words of Jesus as they are written in my NASB. It might help if you follow along in you red letter edition.


At Acts chapter 9, Paul has Jesus saying the following........
Acts 9:4 , "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

Acts 9:5-6 , "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,

but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."

At Acts 9, Paul tells a simple story and Jesus has very little to say.



A few years later, Paul retells the story of his Damascus road experience, at Acts 22. Notice how the story gets better and Jesus gets more talkative.

Acts 22:7 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?'

Acts 22:8 'I am Jesus the Nazarene, whom you are persecuting.'

Acts 22:10 'Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.'

Notice how the story has been told better.

At Acts 9 it was just plain “Jesus’ , now at Acts 22, it is”Jesus the Nazarene”

At Acts 9 it was “enter the city”, now at Acts 22, it is “go on into Damascus”

At Acts 9 it was “it will be told you what you must do." , but at Acts 22 it is “there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.' “

By just examining the words of Jesus you can see how Paul has made the telling of this story better.

Now towards the end of his ministry, Paul tells the story a third time. Follow along Jesus’ words and see how Paul has made this story much better.

Acts 26:14 , 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'

Acts 26:15 , 'I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.

Acts 26:16-18 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you; rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you, to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'

Wow…Paul has really improved this story. In the early editions of this story Paul only heard a voice. Now Jesus has appeared to him and has a lot more information for Paul. Now Paul has been appointed a minister and a witness.

We all know that the New Testament was written years after the events they supposedly report. Before these accounts were written down they were told, retold and told again, and with each retelling they were embellished and made better and much better.


Examine these contradictions.....
Acts 9:8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision
As you can see, when Paul first tells the story he didn't see anyone, but when he retells the story, Jesus is appearing to him, and then is a heavenly vision.


Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me

Did they hear a voice or not?

How can any rational person believe this fairy tale?
Stuart Shepherd

Chris Weimer

Why are you using Acts? Acts is some decades later than Paul, and almost all of it baloney.

Doug Shaver

What Chris said. Paul made none of the statements you are attributing to him. You are quoting a different author entirely, and I think most people in this forum agree that he is not credible.

Jim Colyer

I had an experience in 1972 similar to the one Paul had on the road to Damascus. My room lit up in an unearthly white light. I did not hear Jesus speak, but I was reading the New Testament, and it all suddenly became very clear and obvious.

Toto

The Book of Acts contains three different descriptions of what happened to Paul on the Road to Damascus. There's no reason to believe that any of them are intended to be accurate history. Paul does not recount anything like this in the letters which are usually assumed to be in his own words.

But there is a long history of trying to derive history from Acts, leading to the conclusion that Paul had epilepsy.

Gregg

Stuart, you're gonna have to use the "authentic" letters of Paul to determine whether to believe him or not. What you've done above with Acts is essentially demonstrate that a character in a fictional story can't keep his stories straight.

As for this:

A lot of people on this forum no longer agree with this account of how the gospels came to be written. There is no evidence that the gospel stories were "told, and retold." After all, they certainly are not "told and retold" in the letters of Paul and other NT writers. Everything points to the first gospel being a more or less original creation of "Mark." And, it appears Mark structured his story of the five books of the Torah, with the intention being to demonstrate that Jesus the Christ was a new Adam, a better Moses, a greater Elijah, a mightier David, and so on. Furthermore, "Mark" draws practically all the details of his Passion account from the Jewish scriptures. In other words, "Mark" does not read like someone took some oral traditions that had been circulating and getting embellished over time and set them down on paper. Rather, it reads like he made up the whole thing himself to suit his own purpose or purposes. It's an allegorical tale placed in a semi-historical setting (similar to a fiction story that makes use of real locations and mentions real historical events and people, but most of the main characters are inventions of the author).

Kosh

Those compact flourescent bulbs were rather expensive back then, weren't they?

Gregg

Eureka! It's obvious!

Hogamus, higamus, men are polygamous!

Higamus, hogamus, women are monogamous!

motorhead

stuart: Read the first couple chapters of Galatians.

CreamFilledGiraffe

Sounds like an experience I had which lead me to a crisis of non-faith. Try googling "temporal lobe transients"