Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 12-23-2008, 12:36 AM

Have you checked the sources above?

Barbara Rossing's book is on google books, and there is a youtube interview with her here

xj2yzz · 12-23-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

1) What are the verses that most christians used to support the idea of rapture and 2nd coming?

I think its the 144,000 virgins or something.Only 144,000 in a country of 300 million here in the states thats not many.

squiz · 12-23-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycanthrope

Hi all,

My church which follows a protestant doctrines believes strongly in the rapture which is supposedly the Lord coming back on earth to recieve up his believers in the air. After which the earth will be engulfed in hardship and death on an unimaginable scale (great tribulation). There are variations of this belief some say the rapture occurs after the tribulations, some say before.

Post-trib/pre-mil, pre-trib/pre-mil, postmil or amil, you can find a good summary on the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture. The modern dispensationalist framework, which in my view is an attempt to rationalise some of Evangelicalism's inherent contradictions, was developed by John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren, and has spread widely together with his "pre-trib/pre-mil" rapture views throughout evangelical circles.

One practical implication of these doctrines, that I have noticed, has been a tendency to withdraw from "the world" and await the second coming. The priority is on winning as many souls as possible, rather than helping people improve their condition here on earth now.

It can all seem very important to those within these circles. People also seem to get so obsessed with analysing the exact timetable of Christ's return, that they forget such small things as loving their neighbors. But that seems to be the case with a lot of dogma.

To outsiders of course, it all just seems plain silly. Sort of like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

purple_kathryn · 12-23-2008, 02:17 AM

I didn't think any protestant church outside of the US believed in the rapture.

I blame in the internet. :constern02:

Any chance of them fixing on a date so that we can point and laugh when it comes and passes completely unremarkably?

Or is it just handwavingly soon.

Like Jesus has been returning soon for the past 2000 years

Lugubert · 12-23-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purple_kathryn

I didn't think any protestant church outside of the US believed in the rapture.

I blame in the internet. :constern02:

Any chance of them fixing on a date so that we can point and laugh when it comes and passes completely unremarkably?

Or is it just handwavingly soon.

Like Jesus has been returning soon for the past 2000 years

Agree in point but not entirely on grammar.

The Rapture concept is totally unknown in supposedly very Protestant Sweden, except among some Googlers and the like.

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 06:06 AM

The rapture is what happens when you put religion in the hands of heretics. I think we should have a good old fashioned burning, like we did with the papists. It's the only way really.

I love the smell of Papists in the morning.

Jeffrey Gibson · 12-23-2008, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

The rapture is what happens when you put religion in the hands of heretics. I think we should have a good old fashioned burning, like we did with the papists. It's the only way really.

I love the smell of Papists in the morning.

I wonder if you could tell me how this post -- as well as most of the other messages posted in this thread (D. Hindley's excepted) -- answers the question posed by "lycanthrope" or in any comports with his that replies to his question come only from those " who are well skilled in the doctrine of the rapture"?

Jeffrey

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

The rapture is what happens when you put religion in the hands of heretics. I think we should have a good old fashioned burning, like we did with the papists. It's the only way really.

I love the smell of Papists in the morning.

I wonder if you could tell me how this post -- as well as most of the other messages posted in this thread (D. Hindley's excepted) -- answers the question posed by "lycanthrope" or in any comports with his that replies to his question come only from those " who are well skilled in the doctrine of the rapture"?

Jeffrey

It doesn't I just think the rapture is a sad misbegotten belief. But hey I realise religion is immune from humour, my bad Arch Bishop Gibson.

purple_kathryn · 12-23-2008, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugubert

Agree in point but not entirely on grammar.

The Rapture concept is totally unknown in supposedly very Protestant Sweden, except among some Googlers and the like.

Spelling I can do (typos not withstanding). Grammar I'm not so hot on.

I don't know if anyone here (Northern Ireland) believes in it (I'd doubt the majority of people have heard of it).

Jeffrey Gibson · 12-23-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lycanthrope

The thing is my church people happily quotes some verses that seemingly talks about the 2nd coming and the rapture. I feel that these same verses may have a double meaning but my bible skills are not good enough to deal with it indepth and hence I am asking around on the forum to see if anyone knows the following:

1) What are the verses that most christians used to support the idea of rapture and 2nd coming?

2) How did they determine it to mean the present age and the end of the world?

3) What counter arguments is there to counter this rather pernicious doctrines?

Thanks

The answers to all of your questions are wonderfully set out in Efird's End-Times: Rapture, Antichrist, Millennium (or via: amazon.co.uk).

In addition, you might want to look at Left Behind or Left Befuddled: The Subtle Dangers of Popularizing the End Times (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Gordon L. Isaac .

Jeffrey

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

12-23-2008, 12:36 AM	#11
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Have you checked the sources above? Barbara Rossing's book is on google books, and there is a youtube interview with her here

12-23-2008, 02:17 AM	#14
purple_kathryn Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 3,382	I didn't think any protestant church outside of the US believed in the rapture. I blame in the internet. :constern02: Any chance of them fixing on a date so that we can point and laugh when it comes and passes completely unremarkably? Or is it just handwavingly soon. Like Jesus has been returning soon for the past 2000 years

12-23-2008, 06:06 AM	#16
The Dagda Banned Join Date: May 2008 Location: England, Portsmouth Posts: 5,108	The rapture is what happens when you put religion in the hands of heretics. I think we should have a good old fashioned burning, like we did with the papists. It's the only way really. I love the smell of Papists in the morning.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.