Transplanar

Many theists would credit God with all the good that happens in the world, and all evil to other non-defined sources (or Satan). But if God truly has power over the entire universe, then it stands to reason that if there was something in the universe God did not want, he could simply remove it. Why wouldn't he? If you had mold in your refrigerator and an easy means to remove it wouldn't you take it out?

I therefore assert that everything that happens in the universe, both the actions of man and of nature, are as God wanted. This only makes sense. That means, though, that God also wants people to suffer through life and for many to go to hell (or else why would he even make hell in the first place?). Theists seem to have the idea in their heads that God has to punish people for their sins and all that, but God doesn't have to do anything. He's God! He makes the rules. He could change them anytime if he wants to. The fact that he does not shows this is how he wants things to run. If that is the case, how can God truly be good?

Julian

[MOD]
This will get more play over in GRD.

Julian
Moderator BC&H
[/MOD]

AkiraZen

Perhaps the divine does not interfere because the higher spirit of things wants man to learn to overcome obstacles instead of having obstacles removed for them.

Nobody would progress or become a wise individual if the world was made easy.

Also in Buddhism there are levels of hell reserved for those haunted by their own misdeeds.

My theory is that most men in doing misdeeds make their own hell here on earth by their own actions.

As for evil I clearly believe that men are the sole reason why it exists because of desire and greed.

Starlock

As one who doesn't adhere to a Western, monotheistic faith, I have a different frame of reference on this question, but I'll stick to the monotheistic presuppositions for now. Or rather, the reasoning that is going to be presented operates independently of 'the numbers game' for the divine.

"Evil" cannot be removed for several reasons. One, "evil" is a subjective attribution humans place on something which they personally find discomforting. What is "evil" for one is "good" for another. The death of all humans would be "evil" for humans, but "good" for the bacteria, animals, plants and such that would get to recycle our bodies into their own flesh.

"Evil" cannot be removed because one pole cannot exist (to the human mind) without its opposite. All polarities contain within them something of the opposite. Within light there is darkness, etc. If there was only one pole, we would have no basis for comparisson and "good" nor "evil" wouldn't be in our vocabulary.

TNorthover

Something can be imagined without existing. I'd much rather not have a word for evil because no-one had considered the possibility than be in the present situation.

Transplanar

Higher spirit of things? As in a higher force or authority than God? Even if God has a plan, he still chooses to stick to that plan by his own will. If he really want to intervene and save someone, he most certainly could (hey, he did it for Moses).

Perhaps not directly made by God, but it is a byproduct of his creations, and one that he (should have) known about well in advance. Even if you were to make the arguement that God has no involvement in evil acts then that still leaves the fact that God allows something to happen.

For example, we can agree a murderer is evil. But if there is someone in the position to stop that murderer from killing someone (very easily, like saying "don't kill that person!"), yet they choose not to, does that make them evil as well? At the very least it does not make them good.

I meant evil in the sense of wanting or allowing destruction, pain, suffering, and corruption of human beings (corruption especially when looking at things from a theistic standpoint, as a good soul can be lead to go bad).

Not everything exists in dualities like that. In fact, many of the dualities we have are subjective in themselves. But besides that fact, God presumably made the rules of the universe, including that there must be good and evil and not one or the other. If God himself adhere's to a universal code that is somehow above him, that would be another matter, though it would mean that God is not as powerful as he is made out to be.

AkiraZen

Higher spirit of things that are together intwined of the higher order that is the cosmos.

In my view everything that is the cosmos is the starting point of everything.

In terms I think anthropomorphically about some issues as I am human and humans tend to do just that. When however I talk about the creator of everything I will say the higher order or spirit because I view the creator to be more of a absolute energy or power that constitutes all of the cosmos.

I am not Christian.



Once you give a creature freewill how is a higher force allowed to intervene with such a creature without interfering with that same freewill that the higher force has given?

Freewill to me is taking account,responsibility and judgement for all our actions.

Corona688

An omnipotent thing would know the results of freewill, for good or for ill.

Not that responsibility is a useless concept. It just doesn't make sense the way the religious make it.

Transplanar

Depends on whether you consider free will to be a "power" or property of a person's soul or simply a privledge given to someone by a higher power. I am inclined to think that (as far as Abrahamic faiths are concerned, anyway) that free will is something God allows people to have, but something he could violate or break at any time.

JKelly

The Bible is full of examples of God hardening people's hearts (Pharaoh) and blinding their eyes just to fulfil obscure scriptures. If scriptures have to be fulfilled, then any freewill is just an illusion.