aa5874

I have come across a theory that claims the Israelites were never slaves in Egypt on the basis that their (the Israelites) culture and language do not exhibit any trace of being influenced by the Egyptian culture or language.

Is there any validity to such a theory?

Joan of Bark

Many here would recommend the book "The Bible Unearthed" by Silberman and Finkelstein for all you need to know about the Hebrews and Egypt.

spin

Hebrew as a language is closely related to the other languages in the Levant. Most closely to Moabite and Ammonite. Phoenician is not quite as close but they form a family in which Phoenician was the earliest to leave and develop its own individuality. That didn't happen much before 1200 BCE. Hebrew would have been next to separate from the rest.

The Egyptians had control of the southern Levant from about 1500 BCE to 1120 BCE, then again from about 950 BCE for a few hundred years. (There are Egyptianizing scarabs galore in the Israel Museum and elsewhere.) One should expect some Egyptian to have rubbed off, but the contact was so small they seem to have left little trace except for a few names. Phineas and Hophni are thought to be from Egyptian influence as well as Moses.


spin

aa5874

Spin, I have seen the effect of slavery in the Western World, which lasted about 200 years, and all the descendants of those enslaved show the effects in language and culture.

After 200 years of slavery, those controlled by France, speak french and similarly those controlled by Britain, Spain, Potugal and the Netherlands all speak their language respectively. These descendants of slavery have also adapted some of the culture of their enslavers.

What I find amazing, and incredible, is that according to Exodus 1:1-3, only 70 persons were enslaved. I do not know the population of Egypt at that time, but in the height of slavery in the West, slaves outnumbered their colonisers at least 10:1 in some instances, and yet all descendants speak the language of the coloniser fluently and have lost their original language.

I would imagine that while enslaved, the Israelites would have to take all commands in the Egyptian language, I would think that the offspring of those slaves would be illiterate, not having been allowed schooling and severely over-worked.

If these 70 persons were enslaved for 200 years, then I would expect the following generations to be essentially Egyptians, both in language and custom, especially when they are enslaved in Egypt and not their homeland.

RomanNiucumir

I think that the Hebrew writing system traces its lineage back to Egyptian hieroglyphics, unless I'm wildly misremembering.

spin

There are two separate strands of historical data behind the story of the exodus:

1. Small groups of nomads moved through the Sinai area in search of better conditions, as noted in Egyptian records; and
2. Before the 18th dynasty, Egypt was under the control of a non-Egyptian group we know as the Hyksos, who were forced to leave circa 1500 BCE, driven out with Egyptians in hot pursuit and ended up in the Levant and there are some archaeological indications of this movement with some cities destroyed.

The Hyksos (a name which is a Greek form of an Egyptian description of these people apparently meaning "foreign rulers") had control of Egypt for well over 100 years and after that the Egyptians who came to rule the 18th dynasty were somewhat xenophobic. The Egyptian memory of their rule was extremely long-lasting. The account of Manetho was the basis of Greek Egyptian literature which maintained information about them.

People from Judah had been in Egypt at least from the time of the exile. Then the Persians had a colony of Jews in the far south at Elephantine (modern Aswan) and Jews were employed in the Ptolemaic armies, so there is a long connection between Jews and Egypt. There were probably slaving ships in this late period as well.

While there is no evidence to support an exodus of Hebrews from Egypt and a following conquest of Canaan, there is a strong involvement of Jews in Egypt from the time of Nebuchadnezzar onwards. With the long-lasting memory of foreign overlordship from Asia and signs of local polemic in Egypt against Jews relating them to Hyksos (or Hyksos type, as in Josephus's citing a report of a group of lepers under Moses being driven out) involvement in Egypt, I think there is good evidence for an exodus tradition developing out of the various scraps of the separate memories I have mentioned here, ie the exodus tradition is a late development which does not directly relate to any historical event, though it has lots of history behind it.


spin

fredhsu

Notice that the original post asked about 'language', not writing system. Most scholars believe writing was only invented a few times (e.g. Sumerian/Egyptian, Chinese, Mayan, etc.) and adapted by speakers of other languages subsequently. From Egyptian hieroglyph/phonogram the progenitor of today's alphabets was born as the Proto-Sinaitic script and was adopted to write Semitic languages. From this came Phoenician writing, then Aramiac, and finally Hebrew. See "alpha beta" by John Man for a fascinating account of this story. Or check out the better organized wiki page.

This, however, is no proof that the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt, for out of Egyptian writing system grew most languages used in known history.

Anat

The Babylonian exile lasted just a couple of generations, but influenced returning exiles to adopt a Babylonian calendar, introduce changes in language, adopt a different alphabet, changes in their belief system. Yet after supposedly several centuries in Egypt the Israelites and Judahites have a culture that is a continuation of the material culture of the Levant, a henotheistic religion that continues the religion of the Levant (with Yahweh being modeled after Baal), a Levantine language and a script derived from the Levantine Phoenician script. Does not make sense.

EarlOfLade

Not to mention zero influence on Egyptian society. Or any archeological evicence of a large group of non-egyptian living in Egypt.

There is a lot of evidence for Nubian influence on Egypt, but not Jewish.

Tammuz

You say that the Israelites exhibit no sign of Egyptian influence? But the Ten Commandments are from Egypt (Book of the Dead), and the Lion of Judah symbol is also said to originally have been from Egypt.