LoungeHead

What is the legal or political status of Adam and Eve?

Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden, which can be considered a violation of their human rights. Does God even endorse Human Rights?

Are Adam and Eve refugees or asylum seekers?

Toto

I'd say that they are mythological.

And I think this thread would do better in GRD.

one allegiance

You're associating religion with politics...that's the first thing you have to realize, and probably shy away from. Secondly, there was no other political agenda or obligation other than God for Adam and Eve. They were only accountable for one thing, which was being obedient to God.

I'm not sure what point you are getting at here, but I think that applying politics to Adam and Eve is not even a valid comparison. Eh, and just for the sake of it, an asylum seeker is a refugee.

Steve Schlicht

I really enjoy when Christians open up and are honest about their favorite tyrannical Master.

Thanks for your refreshing views, one allegiance!

Steve

DBT

But a refugee may not be seeking asylum, simply fleeing to a new area of his own country.

Ponzi

There were evicted for failing to uphold the terms of their lease.

Ojuice5001

Or, they were exiled for the crime of stealing.

Exile is a time-honored form of punishment. I mean, in the ancient world it was supposed to be a pretty harsh thing to sentence someone to. Just look at the story of Cain, or Adam and Eve themselves. But I don't see how it's a "violation of human rights" even by our standards, much less the standards of the ancient world.

Of course, there are plenty of reasons why the blame should be placed more on God than on Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve didn't know right from wrong, God knew ahead of time that they were going to disobey, I know these arguments. But I still think that it would stand up in any international court if God argued that he was only exiling a couple of thieves from his lands, rather than...whatever LoungeHead thinks is the correct interpretation.

LoungeHead

Articles 13, (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. - Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Does God disagree with UDHR?
Since when has religion and politics been seperate?

Also God is taking a political position when he created the rules of Eden and expelled Adam and Eve. You certainly cannot claim God is apolitical in his actions. God has an apparent ideological position towards humanity and Eden.
Next you'll tell me God wasn't being political when he demonstrated favor towards agricultralism by prefering the animal offerings of Able and showed disinterest in the Horticultural offerings of Cain. God clearly prefers the agriculturists.

God is also a tyrant, who disregards human rights (the fact the HR did not exist in the ancient world does not mean they were unknown to an omniscient God).

Ojuice5001

Fair enough, although I still maintain that exile is just as valid a punishment as prison. Article 2 says that "everyone has the right to life, liberty, and security of person," but surely that isn't intended to outlaw the practice of putting thieves in prison.

And I acknowledge that even if exile is a legitimate punishment, it is still quite draconian to use it as the sentence for a couple of first-offenders who are only guilty of stealing.

Probably Yahweh agrees with it only when it's compatible with his purposes, just like most human governments.

My position may be unclear, so I should probably clarify a few points:

1. I think that the god who inspired the Bible, whom I call Yahweh, is a real being. However, he is not omniscient or always benevolent. I refer to him as "Yahweh" when I am speaking of the being I think actually exists, while I refer to "God" when I am paraphrasing the Bible, or the beliefs of Christians, or the like.
2. I do not accept the story of Adam and Eve as literally historical.
3. I think (as I mentioned before) that if we evaluate the actions of God, Adam, and Eve as portrayed in Genesis, there is plenty of room for blaming God as well as Adam and Eve. But the fact remains that taking the forbidden fruit was an act of theft.
4. I think that exiling convicted criminals (including thieves) can be a justifiable punishment. And I am not yet convinced that the UDHR rules it out, any more than a right to liberty means that it's wrong to imprison a thief.
5. I think there's little point in evaluating the actions of ancient societies and ruling powers (including gods) by the standards of a twentieth-century resolution on human rights that is, even today, honored more in the breach than in the observance.

LoungeHead

No. But it is done in accordance with other articles or process of law i.e. right to fair trial ... etc.

But it does raise another question, on what basis does God have the power to condemn humanity to death for eating fruit and gaining knowledge?
The crime they are accused of is disobedience i.e. they did not follow the laws of the state, not the fact they commited a particular crime.

I agree the measures against them are extreme, and if any current state condemned people to death for merely breaking law, regardless of the crime, there would be outrage against that state for such draconian enforcement. I think it is safe to say God does not care for human rights.
So Yahweh is arbitrary in his system of justice?
I can accept that Yahweh is real, and not necessarily omniscient or benevolent as the Bible does suggest He is neither. I can even accept the Adam and Eve is not literally historical, but is an account of humanity's relationship with Yahweh, the principle of the story having some historical accuracy. That is, Adam and Eve may be a represention of humanities early relationship with Yahweh.

I think a lot of what went wrong can be attributed to God, but does the punishment fit the crime, and has God commited excessive abuse of human rights. And if so, where do human rights stand in relation to contemprary religions of the "book"?
Sure. But I was under the impression that God was omniscient.

While I agree there is not much point in evaluating ancient societies on current standards, the fact that ancient cultural ideas persist today in various religions and states, does mean we need to examine the validity of current ideas against ancient ideas, viceversa. How we decide which ones are ultimately valid is another question.

If God has no regard for human rights or his own laws (such as Ten Commandments) how can humanity be condemned for violation of such rights or commands of God?

Also, why does God prescribe rules for humanity that he cannot keep and he knows humanity cannot keep?

My OP is answered, so these quesions are just after thoughts.