Originally Posted by aa5874

But, you have no idea if what you say is true.

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

The truth of the statements is irrelevant to the point that you are wrong when you claim that they appear to contradict. The statements do not contradict each other.

Originally Posted by spamandham

[To aa5874] You're really making no sense whatsoever in this thread.

Originally Posted by aa5874

You MUST know the truth to claim the statements do not contradict each other.

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Wrong again. To counter your claim that they contradict, I need only show that this is not necessarily true and I have done so.

It is painfully clear that you have never taken a formal class in logic so your opinion of my "logics" is meaningless.

Originally Posted by aa5874

Can it now be said with reasonable certainty that Mary was the mother of the carpenter and the carpenter's son at the same time?

Originally Posted by Amaleq 13

IF both Joseph and Jesus were carpenters, that is precisely what she would have been.

Originally Posted by aa5874

So, it MUST be true that Joseph and Jesus were capenters (sic) for Mary to be the mother of the carpenter and the carpenter's son.

Your statement is dependent on the truth.

Originally Posted by aa5874

I will post your statement for everyone to see.

Originally Posted by gstafleu

I see, the problem is not so much the bridge, it is that the bridge is of unusual construction, right? Let's see if my idea that Mark's purpose is to spread the message "Messiahs don't work" helps any.

In Mark 6:3, "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Jude and Simon? Are not his sisters here with us?" we see Jesus being defined as anything but himself. A Messiah, OTOH, is a rather sui generis entity who certainly merits definition in his own terms. What we see here is thus an instance of Mark's central message: the town's people simply saw him as just another neighborhood boy, not a Messiah. Jesus underlines this with “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”, another indication of how Messiah's don't work, certainly not where you most need them.

The occurrences in 15 and 16 of "Mary the mother of <anyone but Jesus>" is an ironic elaboration of this theme. Here the poor guy has died, and now his mother is not even defined as his mother, rather this relation is stated indirectly via his brother Joses. A rather sharp description of messianic insignificance, I'd say.

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Since the issue is what it is that Mark and Matthew, though those who raise the questions found in Mk. 6:3 and Mt. 13:55, respectively present to be the case regarding Jesus' and the husband of Mary's occupation, the only thing that must be true for Doug's statement to be true is that it is the case that in Mk. 6:3 Jesus is regarded by those who ask οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ τ�*κτων as a carpenter and that Mt. 13:55 presents Mary's husband as someone whom those who utter οὐχ οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ τοῦ τ�*κτονος υἱός; regard a carpenter.[/I]

Originally Posted by Solo

In case you stick with the majority translation you'll find Doug's argument doesn't make sense as the issue logically rests not on whether Joseph (in Mt) and Jesus (in Mk) were both carpenters but whether the carpenter in Mk 6:3 references the carpenter in Mt 13:55, which it evidently does not.

Jiri