FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-2006, 11:27 PM   #1
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default Was Jesus really born in Bethlehem?

According to the texts, the only people who knew that Jesus was born in Bethlehem were Joseph, Mary, and the magi. Joseph and the magi were never mentioned again. Did Mary ever tell anyone that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? No one knows.
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:43 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 8,254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic
According to the texts, the only people who knew that Jesus was born in Bethlehem were Joseph, Mary, and the magi. Joseph and the magi were never mentioned again. Did Mary ever tell anyone that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? No one knows.
The innkeeper and his family knew...
Thomas II is offline  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:48 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

Sorry Johnny, but I can't grasp at what you're trying to say...?
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:57 PM   #4
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default Was Jesus really born in Bethlehem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Weimer
Sorry Johnny, but I can't grasp at what you're trying to say...?
What I want to know is why Christians believe that Jesus was born in Bethlehem other than "the Bible says so."
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:58 PM   #5
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,796
Default Was Jesus really born in Bethlehem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas II
The innkeeper and his family knew...
But how does that help Christians?
Johnny Skeptic is offline  
Old 01-21-2006, 03:23 AM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: On the wing, waiting for a kick
Posts: 2,558
Default

For much the same reason that we believe that any given historical figure was born where the written records say they were and if the actual birth place (i.e. site within location rather than the location itself) is unsure or destroyed.
We have no reason to doubt the the written record.
Tigers! is offline  
Old 01-21-2006, 03:54 AM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,281
Default

Quote:
What I want to know is why Christians believe that Jesus was born in Bethlehem other than "the Bible says so."
You just answered your own question.
Djugashvillain is offline  
Old 01-21-2006, 06:42 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 5,815
Default

It is unlikely that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

Both nativity stories are obviously fictional, and are late additions to the Jesus story (and, of course, they contradict each other: the genealogies, the Herod/Quirinius contradiction, and so forth). Apparently, there was an expectation that the messiah WOULD be born in Bethlehem: but, according to John, he was inconveniently born elsewhere.
Jack the Bodiless is offline  
Old 01-21-2006, 07:11 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Massachusetts, USA -- Let's Go Red Sox!
Posts: 1,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack the Bodiless
Apparently, there was an expectation that the messiah WOULD be born in Bethlehem: but, according to John, he was inconveniently born elsewhere.
John 7 has sometimes been read in another way: the irony is not that Jesus is who he says he is despite the expectation about being born and Bethlehem and actually being born outside Judea, but that he was actually born in Bethlehem and everyone thinks he's Galilean.

I dont agree, but its worth noting.
God Fearing Atheist is offline  
Old 01-21-2006, 10:26 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 7,816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers!
We have no reason to doubt the the written record.
Sure we do. The stories are incompatible in their explanation of Bethlehem as his actual birthplace but being known as coming from Galilee (Nazareth) and appear motived not by a desire to record history but to show that a prophecy was fulfilled. Matthew appears to be retelling the story of the birth of Moses rather than relating history and Luke clearly fabricates the most ridiculous census imaginable. That they created apparently fictitious "explanations" is clearly a good reason to doubt the reliability of the stories.

If that wasn't enough reason to doubt the reliability of these stories, there is some problematic archaeological evidence that provides more than enough reason to doubt.
Amaleq13 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:08 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.