net2002

As Christians, we see that this was more than just an emotional feeling of abandonment. We believe that God actually did turn His back on Jesus -"forsaking" him. But this was only a temporary state of affairs.

The question is "why would God abondon His own Son?"

If only we could understand God's hatred of sin. God hates sin with such an intensity we can not even begin to imagine. Now the Scripture states "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us" (2 Corinthians 5v21). Imagine, Jesus Christ actually became sin itself. This is hard to imagine. Imagine all the sins if the world being placed upon the shoulders of Jesus - all the hatred, murder, lust, evil, wickedness, lieing, etc. What an horrendous sight!!!!! If it seems horrendous to me, it must have been infinitely more horrendous to God. How could God even look upon such a sight - He turned his back.

So Jesus Christ cries out "My God My God why hast thou forsaken me.....?"

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1. as a human being i've probably seen people die worser deaths compared to crucifixions.

2.Why didn't yhwh prevent original sin from spreading?

3.Why didn't the christian god catch this mistake of sin before creating the earth?

4.

SLD

Good points, but what was the fourth one?

This Christian argument is indeed bizarre. It makes the whole passion merely a stage play - but for what purpose? God's entertainment?

Actually though, the words, to me at least, indicate an element of truth to the story. Not the whole gospel, mind you, but that there may have been a historical Jesus after all. Hyamm Maccoby has argued that Jesus had believed that God was going to perform a miracle and eject the Romans from Judea and thus Jesus would take over the mantle of the Davidian line of Kings. When God failed to do that, Jesus raises his pathetic cry in anguish as he is dying on the cross. The words though have troubled Christian apologists for a long time (and of course don't appear in John). It makes no real sense for Jesus to say that. I see it as something that points against Jesus as the Messiah, and the editors of Mark failed to excise it. And as such, it indicates (to me at least) that there was a real historical figure around whom the Gospels were created.

SLD

judge

Aramic speaker such as george Lamsa who translated the aramaic NT into english in the 50's and paul younan who is publishing an interlinear aramaic/english NT online suggest that this is not the meaning of the aramaic.

In other words the person who translated this into greek, mistranslated it.

here is a translation from someone who speaks aramaic

http://www.peshitta.org/pdf/Mattich27.pdf

Amos

God did not abandon Jesus the Christ but he abandonned Jesus the Jew and that was needed to set the Christ identity (his own son) free. Notice that Jesus was never addressed as Christ until after the resurrection.

Magus55

Jesus is called Christ on the first page of Matthew, and all throughout the Gospel.

yummyfur

Only Matthew and Mark have him say this

Matt. 27:46 (see also Mark 15:34): "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?' that is to say, 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?'

Notice how the greek text also gives the transliterated aramaic, besides translating, I think this is important.

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me" is the opening line of Psalm 22

"To the Overseer, on `The Hind of the Morning.' -- A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation, The words of my roaring? "

For Psalm 22 follow link
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm

I assume the gospel writers felt this had some significance.

More from Psalm 22
7"But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people."

8"All they that see me laugh me to scorn; they shoot out the lip, they shake the head:"

This correlates to Isaiah 53 when he talks about the "suffering servant"

2"For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him. "

3"He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not. "

For Isaiah 53 follow link
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1053.htm

Probably early christians saw psalm 22 as being about the "suffering servant" in Isaiah.

This is shown by 1 Clement chapter 16 who actually puts lines 7 and 8 from Psalm 22 together with lines from Isaiah 53 to describe Christ.

For 1 Clement follow link
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...t-roberts.html

Patrick Schoeb

Amos

1) Just the ego was crucified

2) Original sin is the best thing that even happened to mankind as it makes adaptation possible (it happened to all sentient beings and just means that there is a divide between our conscious and subconscious mind).

3) The Christian God did not create the earth but he created heaven and earth by placing them opposite to each other in the myth and for that the concept sin is needed (he created the New Heaven and the New Earth of Rev. 21).

Amos

No there he was introduced as Christ.

The only place he is addressed as Christ is in Mark 16 "Freer Logion" which is after the resurrection and there only as Christ.