Black Badger

I was on a road trip with some friends of mine who happen to be Christians, and the driver chose to listen to a tape of a pastor giving a sermon "proving" that the resurrection happened. While he started with the claim that he would prove it through secular historians without even using the Bible, he actually only referred to two quotes from non-biblical historians, and asserted the rest of his points mostly out of thin air, from which I assume he was taking them from the Bible, especially since he was mostly referring to specific actions taken by the disciples.

Anyway, in the midst of his argument, I was struck by his claim that Jesus' tomb was guarded by 16 Roman soldiers, since that seemed like a remarkably specific number. I decided to glance through the Gospels and see if they actually say that, and was considerably surprised that only one of the four even says that the tomb was guarded at all.

Is there something I'm missing, or was this pastor really being blatantly dishonest to his congregation?

Peter Kirby

Dishonest or deluded.

best,
Peter Kirby

Peter Kirby

I found the probable source here.

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon, Digital Edition, article on Strong’s word #617, apokulio: "For a small grave, about 20 men were required to roll a stone downhill to cover the door of the tomb. The Bible tells us that the stone covering the door of the tomb was a large stone. The women would have needed more men than even a full Roman guard of 16 men to roll away the stone."

best,
Peter Kirby

John A. Broussard

It has always struck me as strange that, if the tomb was in fact guarded, that there wasn't an immediate report of this individualized rapture to the authorities and a quick letter dispatched to Rome about a living god on the loose. Strangely enough, this rather significant event passed unnoticed in official circles.

Chili

What I find strange is that they always guarded the tombs for three days. Was stealing a dead body a common thing to do in those days?

John A. Broussard

The Christian explanation I've heard is that the Romans had heard that Jesus had predicted he would rise from the dead. They didn't believe it, of course, but they figured some of Jesus' cult followers would raid the tomb, remove the body, and then claim he had risen--which would solidify Jesus' claim to be King of the Jews, which would inspire rebellion against the Romans, which would make for problems. The guard was to prevent this grave robbery, and thus cut off the conspiracy at its core.

Black Badger

This is what it says in Matthew, the lone gospel to mention guards at all. The story goes on to a dramatic account of how angels appeared to open the tomb and the awestruck guards all dropped to the ground in a dead faint (not very stronghearted for soldiers, were they?).

The other three make no mention of this whatsoever, simply saying in various slightly different words that Mary Magdalene came to the tomb after three days and found it open and the body gone.

Black Badger

So if this pastor knew from some similar source that a full Roman guard contains 16 men, that's probably why he chose that number. Thanks, Peter, that's illuminating.

Still, it looks like I'll have to stick with the idea that he was being dishonest at this point, in the sense that he was asserting as truth ideas that are on very shaky ground at best. To me it is quite a fundamentally dishonest thing to do when, given four somewhat differing versions of the same story, you pick a section that only one of the four even includes and assume it's true because it supports your point best. And this appears to be what he was doing.

Steven Carr

Are these the same Christians who claim that no Jews would have believed that somebody could rise from the dead before the general resurrection at the last day? Why were the authorities worried about a false claim that apparently would have been no more believable than a claim that Jesus had jumped over the moon?

It is surprising that the Romans managed to understand what Jesus meant by saying that he would rise from the dead, when his own disciples were baffled by it.

See http://www.infidels.org/library/maga...4/4know91.html

Till writes 'So the women remembered that Jesus had predicted his resurrection, the disciples at Emmaus remembered it, and the enemies of Jesus remembered it. Everyone apparently remembered it except Jesus's own handpicked apostles. That's a little hard to believe.'

Chili

It gets a lot better! The chief priests along with the pharisees in charge called at Pilate's residence to remind him that Jesus was an imposter and that he should have[b] the tomb kept under surveillance untill the third day to prevent a premature resurrection [/q]. . . in which case the final imposter would be many times worse than the first.

They knew exactly what was going on here and just did not want another 'wolf in sheeps clothing' around.