Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GakuseiDon · 12-15-2008, 04:11 PM

I've just read the letters supposedly written by Seneca and Paul in their correspondence with each other. These letters were thought to have been written around the fourth C CE.

I was wondering if there were any other extant letters attributed to Paul, outside the NT, but written within the first four centuries or so?

Toto · 12-15-2008, 04:20 PM

Non canonical Pauline epistles

Quote:

Several non-canonical epistles exist claiming or having been claimed to have been written by Paul. Most, if not all, scholars reject their authenticity. They include

Third Epistle to the Corinthians (canonical for a time in the Armenian Orthodox)
Epistle to the Laodiceans (found in Codex Fuldensis)
Epistle of the Corinthians to Paul (addressed to Paul, not written by him)
Epistle to the Alexandrians

Texts also exist which, whilst not strictly epistles, nevertheless claim to have been written by (or about) Paul. These include

Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter and Paul
Apocalypse of Paul
Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
Prayer of the Apostle Paul
Epistle to Seneca the Younger

Some have also postulated the existence of a third epistle to the Thessalonians (second chronologically) forged in Paul's name, citing 2 Th 2:1-2, 3:17 as evidence; that hypothesis, though, has not gained mainstream acceptance.

Most of those letters written are non-extant, known only by reference in some other work.

Do you think there should be more? You realize that the NT contains letters attributed to Paul that were almost certainly not written by him.

DCHindley · 12-15-2008, 04:27 PM

Don,

I don't think so. There are letters attributed to James the Just, and to various apostles of Jesus, produced by "orthodox," and heretic/gnostics, and even between Jesus himself and King Abgar of Edessa, but except for something said to be Paul's epistle to the Laodiceans (not Marcion's version, which was probably Ephesians), I don't think letters attributed to Paul were that common.

Strange, considering that 13 are attributed to Paul in the NT.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

I've just read the letters supposedly written by Seneca and Paul in their correspondence with each other. These letters were thought to have been written around the fourth C CE.

I was wondering if there were any other extant letters attributed to Paul, outside the NT, but written within the first four centuries or so?

mountainman · 12-15-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Non canonical Pauline epistles
Do you think there should be more? You realize that the NT contains letters attributed to Paul that were almost certainly not written by him.

Dear Don and Toto (and Dave),

In addition there appears to be mention in the Chapter 5 - Decretum Gelasianum of ..

* the Revelation which is called Paul's

Earlier, in chapter 3 it mentions:

Quote:

THE ORDER OF THE SCRIPTURES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
which the holy and catholic Roman church upholds and is venerated.

...[...]...

The letters of the apostle Paul in number fourteen

to the Romans one letter
to the Corinthians two letters
to the Ephesians one letter
to the Thesalonians two letters
to the Galatians one letter
to the Philippians one letter
to the Colossians one letter
to Timothy two letters
to Titus one letter <<<<======== The importance of Crete (See greek law codes of Gortys)
to the Philemon one letter
to the Hebrews one letter

This document is often superficially dated to the end of the fifth century however there are arguments that it could date as early as the time of Damasius (ie: c.365 CE) or even earlier, which means that it may then have bearing on the specific chronology (to the 4th century) mentioned in the OP.

In summary has anyone seen (the text of) "Paul's Revelation"?

Best wishes,

Pete

Toto · 12-15-2008, 05:11 PM

"Paul's Revelation" would be the Apocalypse of Paul mentioned above, or one of the documents known as the Apocalypse of Paul.

Apocalypse_of_Paul

Quote:

The Apocalypse of Paul is one of the texts of the New Testament apocrypha. There is an Ethiopic version of the Apocalypse which features the Virgin Mary in the place of Paul the Apostle, as the receiver of the vision, known as the Apocalypse of the Virgin. The text is not to be confused with the gnostic Apocalypse of Paul, which is unlikely to be related.

The text is here.

The gnostic Apocalypse of Paul is the

Coptic_Apocalypse_of_Paul

GakuseiDon · 12-15-2008, 06:10 PM

Thanks, Toto and DCH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Most of those letters written are non-extant, known only by reference in some other work.

Do you think there should be more? You realize that the NT contains letters attributed to Paul that were almost certainly not written by him.

Yep. But reading the spurious correspondence between Paul and Seneca made me wonder how
"pseudo-Paul" was portrayed in later writings.

mountainman · 12-15-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

"Paul's Revelation" would be the Apocalypse of Paul mentioned above, or one of the documents known as the Apocalypse of Paul.

Apocalypse_of_Paul
The text is here.
The gnostic Apocalypse of Paul is the

Coptic_Apocalypse_of_Paul

Dear Toto,

Thanks for that. The Nag Hammadi Codices which should be separately considered also have the following references to Paul:

NHC 1.1 - The Prayer of the Apostle Paul
NHC 2.1 - The Prayer of the Apostle Paul (seem the same)

and

NHC 5.2 - The Apocalypse of Paul (ie: coptic version from c.348 CE via the C14). This tractate seems to provide a reference for all the heavens from the first heaven to the tenth heaven. Notably the 12 apostles were found in the seventh heaven.

Best wishes,

Pete

Ben C Smith · 12-16-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Non canonical Pauline epistles

Quote:

Several non-canonical epistles exist claiming or having been claimed to have been written by Paul. Most, if not all, scholars reject their authenticity. They include

Third Epistle to the Corinthians (canonical for a time in the Armenian Orthodox)
Epistle to the Laodiceans (found in Codex Fuldensis)
Epistle of the Corinthians to Paul (addressed to Paul, not written by him)
Epistle to the Alexandrians

Don, I have links to the first three above on my epistles of Paul page (go to the bottom of the texts available section). The fourth is not extant, but is spoken of in the Muratorian canon (also linked to on that page).

Ben.

GakuseiDon · 12-16-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Don, I have links to the first three above on my epistles of Paul page (go to the bottom of the texts available section). The fourth is not extant, but is spoken of in the Muratorian canon (also linked to on that page).

Thanks for that, Ben.

12-15-2008, 04:11 PM	#1
GakuseiDon Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 5,714	Are there other letters supposedly written by Paul? I've just read the letters supposedly written by Seneca and Paul in their correspondence with each other. These letters were thought to have been written around the fourth C CE. I was wondering if there were any other extant letters attributed to Paul, outside the NT, but written within the first four centuries or so?

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