Apologist

You, sir, are confusing Church teaching with the Americanist Heresy.

Wikipedia excerpt.

You are confusing God given rights with the usurped liscence which people claim as their own in the United States. Liberalism, individualism, seperation of church and state and so forth and so on are not human rights. What are human rights?

The Church teaches we have the right to Freedom. What is the Church's definition of Freedom? We have the right to tend towards the Good. What is the Good? God is Good. If what we desire tend towards obedience to God's laws and the teachings of the Church, then we are free to pursue it. If not, then it is liscence, not freedom, to go after it.

Fascism is not contrary to the Church's teaching on rights. Fascism strictly imposes the Church's teachings on rights. Again, have you read the Doctrine of Fascism by Benito Mussolini?

Doctrine of Fascism

That is more of less the message of Christianity. Through death to ourselves, we can reach a more perfect life.

In labor, reward. In submission, freedom. In death, life.

Long live sacrifice!

Hail Victory! :wave:

Hail Victory! :wave:

Hail Victory! :wave:

David B

No it can't!

I'm not going to trawl through your links because I know well enough from my past reading and thought that all Aquinas' alleged proofs of god were blown apart yonks ago.

Explain to me why it is reasonable to think god exists - just one argument - whether it is adopted from Aquinas or not, and see if it stands up to critical examination.

Without a demonstration that there is a god, then catholicism, the authirity of various popes, etc, is all built on sand, and fails.

And all your ideas built on it - which, I'm happy to see are not ideas prone to bring non committed lurkers to regard catholicism in any favourable light - also fail.

David B

Apologist

Not really. At best, they've been straw manned to death.

Splarnst

Then they remain unchallenged.

Eldarion Lathria

Item: I do not give a big rat's ass what that dead preening mountebank, Benedict Gaetani said.

Item: I do not give a big rat's ass what that nefarious camorra, the Roman Catholic Church prescribes.

Item: I believe, and practice the doctrine, that all fascists should be shot on sight. The workers should kill fascists, of all kinds.

Item: I believe that government, in so far that the workers choose to tolerate one, should serve the people. Agents of the government should fear the people. If that means the government is weak, good.

Item: I believe that clergy of all types, are nothing but parasites. They have no status save what their congregations give them. They should be required to work for their keep, and not beg for it as they do now.

Fascists are enemies of the human race. You are my enemy. I do not turn the other cheek.

Eldarion Lathria

Splarnst

Wow, almost as poetic as Mr. Orwell's formulation.

David B

Yes, really!

But, show me I'm wrong.

One example please.

David B

Splarnst

And what percentage of those actually supports fascist policies? One percent?

Apologist

The common straw man against Aquinas's proof of God (If you'll click on the word "God" that's the arguments in favor of the existence of a God at all) is that it is circular reasoning. That really isn't the case. It's more like this:

Primary Premise: Infinate regression is impossible.

Secondary Premise: Without a first cause, there would be infinate regression.

Conclusion: There must be a first cause.

Secondary conclusion: This first cause sounds a lot like the Abrahamic God.

David B

So what makes you think that infinite regression is impossible?

Does it not follow from what you say that the first cause is uncaused? If not, what?

If so, what makes you think that a being powerful enough to create everything could be uncaused?

If you read the bible, does not the Abrahamic god sound a lot like a primitive tribal war god?

That will do for now.

I await your answers with interest.

David B

David B