Truth_Seeker

OK….here it is. My first post in the BC&H forum. I am somewhat new to IIDB. My first post was of my Christian deconversion in the GRD forum, and if you haven’t read it, I encourage you to do so. Breaking the tie that binds. In it, I describe that I am not much of a debater, which for the most part is still true (this particular forum, however is definitely getting my feet wet.) . However….after having recently read the thread Extra Biblical evidence for Jesus, I felt compelled to put in my two cents worth concerning biblical evidence, and Christian debaters.

In the thread mentioned above, a user named One Allegiance, became engaged in a debate with the regulars of this forum. I say debate…..but a debate is far from what this was. The posts, generally speaking, and very loosely paraphrased, were as follows:

One Allegiance: Jesus IS real!

BC&H regular: Oh yeah? What is your proof.

One Allegiance: Proof? I don’t need proof! It’s historical fact!

BC&H regular: Fact, huh? According to who?

One Allegiance: I don’t have to prove it! Research it yourself!

BC&H regular: I have, and can’t find any proof.

One Allegiance: But it’s a proven fact!

BC&H regular: Fact? Proven? Where? By Whom?

One Allegiance: The Bible! Anyone! Everyone! Look it up!

Ect, ect, ect………..and on and on it went. I kind of felt sorry for this person. He had gotten engaged into a discussion without having a clue as to what serves as evidence.

I think that Christians who visit these forums need to understand up front exactly what they are getting into, and what actually constitutes as evidence in these forums. First of all, this is a forum on Internet Infidels. The name should clue posters in to the fact that atheist/freethinking people are who you are going to encounter while browsing this site, and engaging in the forums. Most of the regulars who post in these forums, are EXTREMELY knowledgeable and well versed in the Bible, having actually read it and researched it’s history themselves. Some even being ex-christians, ex-pastors, and ex-teachers. And besides that, quoting the Bible as proof, or evidence that Jesus actually existed is probably not going to get you anywhere in a serious debate with an atheist. As to what DOES constitute evidence, a Christian must understand that more than likely, most anything s/he brings to the table as evidence of God or Jesus existence, is probably not going to fly with an atheist in a debate. Generally speaking, an atheist is so, because she or he has already investigated all so called “evidences” that a Christian might bring to a debate, and has found them lacking credibility. Otherwise, they too would be a Christian! If you claim something to be FACT, you better have done your homework, and be ready to prove it using something other than the Bible. Atheists and freethinkers base their knowledge of what is real on verifiable evidences. Hell, most will appreciate THEORY more than biblical references. Please remember that an atheist rejects the Christian God, for the same reason Christians reject all OTHER gods…..and Santa clause….and the tooth fairy. Most atheist are VERY willing to change their mind on a particular subject if there are verifiable facts and credible evidence supporting the opposing view. A Christian willing to debate here, in my opinion, needs to have the same attitude.


Having said that, should a Christian still choose to quote biblical passages as fact in a debate, please don’t be surprised when your debater(s) also quote biblical passages and criticize your interpretation or ascertations. This is after all the Biblical criticism and history forum. And PLEASE don’t invoke the “taking it out of context” phrase. Context is VERY important, no matter what you are talking about, and an atheist probably understands this better than Christians do. Generally, when a Christian accuses someone of taking a Bible passage out of context, what s/he means, is that the particular verse in question does not fit in with their particular beliefs, theological thinking or denominational doctrines, therefore it must have been taken out of context. This is why there are so many different denominations in Christianity. They all have different meanings for different Bible verses, and EACH of them claim that the other is taking it out of context! If you want to talk about taking something out of context, lets talk about the claims of fulfilled prophecy of Jesus’ birth by the author of the book of Matthew. Whew! Talk about taken out of context!!! Now you have a good debate!