punk77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dina Noun
All of those who were standing with Jesus died ... a long time ago.

Just out of curiosity - I am not having a go at you personally - but I have never encountered anybody who believed the above before. Are there many people with that belief?

Sheshbazzar

"..some type of Christian missionary visiting;" perhaps that has been the holdup, -("restraining, till he, -the false or counterfeit one- be removed.....")
Certainly few people in the US had even heard of the Name of "YHWH" 70 years ago, and far fewer had heard of, or been baptized into the name of the Son of YAH, YAHoshua The Messiah.
It is not done, except that it is done. ("In what NAME were you baptized?")
I know that I had attended dozens of churches from my youth upward without so much as even hearing His Holy name being spoken or taught, much less being praised, everyone was too engaged in singing the praises of the substitute name of a Greek statue (idol).

He chose them to make them examples of for all the rest of mankind, As YHWH has said, They broke His Laws, forsook Him, and forgot His Holy Name, and went a whoring after the names and the doctrines of the idols of the nations, serving the "Baal" and the "Gawd" of the nations.
Ask the "Jews", it IS the official decree of their own judges, they have forgotten The Name of their Elohim, and must sing their praises to the substituted "name" adonay which has replaced His Holy Name in their speech, in their prayers and in their praises.
But the WORD of YHWH IS unequivocal to ALL that profess to believe on Him, to the Jew first, and also to the nations;
"ve' l'ha'bdeel beyn ha'Qodesh u'beyn ha'khol......."
"And you shall distinguish between the Holy and between the profane......." (Leviticus 10:10)
And this is the problem with all worldly religion, for in that they do say of that which IS profane, "It is Holy", and of that which IS Holy, they mock, revile, and deny.
You have "versions" of the Scriptures, both of The Old Covenant, and The New, which the desecrators of His Laws, of His Name and His Glory, have placed in your hands.
It is not a matter of a "second try", YHWH has always been The One and only Saviour, and His "help", "deliverance" and "saving" has been ongoing since Adam.
He raised up His Son, to bear His Name, that His Name should BE His Salvation to the nations.
To me, and my brethren in The Faith, these verses, and also most of The New Testament, ARE a warning to all against throwing in our lot
with them that preach in the name of a Greek idol, and receive a mark, T, rather than His Holy Name, which has from the beginning been His Salvation to them that believe on Him;
Study all of what The Scriptures have to say concerning His Name.

Sheshbazzar

It is not a complex belief, in fact anyone who professes to believe the Scriptures ought to be aware, "It is appointed unto men to die once......"
Lazarus was four days dead and stinking, when the WORD of YAH spoke to him and resseructed him, but the chief priests consulted that they might also put Lazarus to death; (again)
Corruption put on incorruption, and mortality put on immortality, Death is swallowed up in Victory.
the WORD gives life everlasting, that no men can ever take away;
If Lazarus died again Victory is not Victory.






(The word "Victory" is one of the many meanings and translations of The Messiah's name, "YAH oshua" literally "YAH's Victory" or "AM Victory" or "AM Deliverer" ie. "Self-Existent-Deliverance" ... "
English needs to use multiple words to express the meaning(s) of the ancient Hebrew idiom "hoshua", which occurs throughout the TaNaKa.)

"For there is NONE other name under heaven, given among men whereby you must be delivered"

Loomis

Then what does that say about the integrity of the compassionate Believers?

What should an Honest person think?Yahweh says child sacrifice was a Judean practice performed in his name.

He says it was his idea.

He takes credit for it.

He says he made them do it.

punk77

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't really given any thought as to what happened to Lazurus. So there are at least two people - Lazurus and Melchizedek/Melchisedec -

Heb 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


who have eternal life as well as Jesus. If they haven't died where are they?

Sheshbazzar

Hello Loomis, have you taken the time to read the entire thread?
As a student of Scripture you are aware that The Law, as set forth in The Old Testament, contains three general categories of commandments;
1. Those GOOD and JUST laws that any Ethical and Honest person of Integrity, anywhere would consent to as being GOOD. (unless they willfully put on blinders, and covered their ears against the hearing of any GOOD words)

2. And those commandments that are against us, that violate the conscience of all Compassionate, Honest, and Ethical men of Integrity everywhere. (unless being filled with self-righteous and biased religious contempt, foregoing Ethical conduct and Integrity, they refuse to reason with Compassion, and Honesty, (lest you misunderstand, I am referring to those who profess to holding a "religious belief", but neglect, compassion, honesty, and ethical integrity in the pursuit of a claim to be "obeying The Law". Their religious contempt is against all who will not fall into line with their self-righteous line of hypocritical reasonings)

3. Those commandments that are essentially neutral, or have no present means of application, or accomplish nothing other than being an outward show "in the flesh", of ritually "keeping the commandments".

These were set as a "Test of Obedience" to of Israel of old.
As Scripture testifies, they disobeyed and failed The Test, and that Test IS OVER;
YHWH gave it to the fathers, and it is not repeatable, and will not be repeated, All of the circumstances wherein that Test was administered have changed, filling out additional tests after the conclusion of -The Test-, do not change the results and grade of The Test that was administered. Wherefore those who repetitiously engage in "going through the motions" of "obeying the commandments" are STILL failing the test that their fathers also failed.
Yes Loomis, I agree, by His Holy Name's very definition, He brings to pass all that comes to pass, if it happens, YHWH IS The One responsible for it;
It WAS His idea,
He formed Cain and Able, Pharaoh and Moses, and John and Herod, and made them to be as they were, and you and I, as we are.
To both say and do as we are led.
Certainly YHWH takes credit for it, and I give Him both the credit and the praise for all that He has done, to bring us to this day.

Sheshbazzar

Don't forget Enoch the seventh from Adam, and EliYAH, for whom the table is still set.

Sheshbazzar

Wherever it is that they are sent, (Matt. 17:3, Mk. 9:4)
but not all such appearances nor conversations have been recorded in our books.

punk77

In one of the earlier posts - sorry I don't have time to link to it just now - the poster was saying that there were none 'righteous' in the Old Testament, but according to Jesus

Luke 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

In the dictionary that I use (Chambers Dictionary - Chambers Harrap Publishers Ltd) both words - just and righteous - are synonymous. Do any posters know if they mean the same in Aramaic/Greek/Hebrew?

Does it not follow that if there already existed at least

ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance

then they got there through following Old Testament guidelines?

punk77

Thanks for both replies. I didn't know that Enoch and EliYAH were meant to have eternal life as well.

Three of them (Lazurus, Enoch and EliYAH) have traceable ancestors but the fourth (Melchizedek/Melchisedec) is

Heb 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life....

Would that not make him a God of some type too?