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View Poll Results: Did Eusebius invent christianity as a political tool to unite the Roman empire?
Yes, certainly. 2 2.63%
Yes, it seems like a good bet. 7 9.21%
There's a fair chance. 5 6.58%
I don't really know. 5 6.58%
It seems rather improbable. 17 22.37%
You must be joking. 34 44.74%
What day is it again? 6 7.89%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:28 AM   #11
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Not to distract from the thread, but I don't know where else to put this question...

Hey, Peter, did you omit a link on the main page for the Acts of Andrew & Matthias, or is it under a different title? And what about the other Gnostic Acts?
--Ben
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:31 AM   #12
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Everyone knows that Jerome invented Eusebius, therefore Eusebius could not have invented Christianity, Jerome even took one of his own names to create this psuedonym, Jeromes full name is Sophronius Eusebius Hieronymus Stridonensis. Please find a manuscript of a Eusebian work that predated 400 CE, it can't be done!(snark)
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete quoting Momigliano
Apart from him, there is no toher name that can be seriously compete with Eusebius' for the invention of ecclesiastical history. He was not vainly boasting when he asserted that he was the "first to enter the undertaking, as travellers do on some desolate and untrodden way".
Dare I ask what meaning you are extracting from the phrase invention of ecclesiastical history?

Ben.
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Old 12-01-2006, 06:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yummyfur View Post
Everyone knows that Jerome invented Eusebius, therefore Eusebius could not have invented Christianity, Jerome even took one of his own names to create this psuedonym, Jeromes full name is Sophronius Eusebius Hieronymus Stridonensis. Please find a manuscript of a Eusebian work that predated 400 CE, it can't be done!(snark)
How naive. It is patently obvious that the Medici invented Christianity, including Eusebius, Jerome, Gregory... the lot.

Ben.
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Old 12-01-2006, 07:06 AM   #15
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I think it is not probably that Eusebius invented Christianity. In my opinion, Eusebius solidified one of the many concepts of Christianity, that is, the prophesied, begotten Son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, crucified under Pontius Pilate, resurrected and ascended to heaven, sitting on the right hand of God.

It was through the invention of Eusebius, under the guidance and support of Constantine, that his concept of Christianity was able to derail all other concepts of Christianity and having branded those concepts as heresies, a campaign of destruction was initiated.

Perhaps, Eusebius invented all those means of eradication.
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Old 12-01-2006, 07:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
How naive. It is patently obvious that the Medici invented Christianity, including Eusebius, Jerome, Gregory... the lot.

Ben.
Fiddlesticks, it was the guy below: he needed something to use his new invention for, and the Torah seemed a little dry for his 'modern times', so ....



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Old 12-01-2006, 08:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yummyfur View Post
Everyone knows that Jerome invented Eusebius, therefore Eusebius could not have invented Christianity, Jerome even took one of his own names to create this psuedonym, Jeromes full name is Sophronius Eusebius Hieronymus Stridonensis. Please find a manuscript of a Eusebian work that predated 400 CE, it can't be done!(snark)
heh heh.

Although you ran more of a risk than you might imagine: the manuscript which contains the Syriac translation of the Theophania, British Library. Additional Ms. 12150, dates from 411 AD. This of course means that (in the real world) it must have been translated some decades earlier, and thus that Eusebius' works were going into Syriac even in his own lifetime. (But such a manuscript is strictly a fluke -- I think it may be the very oldest Syriac ms. in existence). 4th century mss are rare.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben C Smith View Post
Dare I ask what meaning you are extracting from the phrase invention of ecclesiastical history?
The meaning which is synonymous with the terms
attributed to Julian's invectives: "fabrication, fiction
fable, monstrous tale" -- composed by wickedness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MICHAEL J. HOLLERICH
http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=97803621


Religion and Politics in the Writings of Eusebius:
Reassessing the First "Court Theologian"

MICHAEL J. HOLLERICH
assistant professor of religious studies in Santa Clara
University, Santa Clara, California.


Ever since Jacob Burckhardt dismissed him as
"the first thoroughly dishonest historian of antiquity,"
Eusebius has been an inviting target for students of
the Constantinian era. At one time or another they
have characterized him as

* a political propagandist [1],
* a good courtier [2],
* the shrewd and worldly adviser of the Emperor Constantine [3],
* the great publicist of the first Christian emperor,[4]
* the first in a long succession of ecclesiastical politicians, [5]
* the herald of Byzantinism, [6]
* a political theologian, [7]
* a political metaphysician [8], and
* a caesaropapist. [9]


Quote:
[1] Erik Peterson, Der Monotheismus als politisches Problem (Munich, 1951 ), p. 91;

[2] Henri Grégoire, "L'authenticité et l'historicité de la Vita Constantini attribuée ê Eusèbe de Césarée," Bulletin de l'Académie Royale de Belgique, Classe des Lettres, 39 ( 1953 ): 462-479, quoted in T. D. Barnes, Constantine and Eusebius (Cambridge, Mass., 1981 ), p. 401;

[3] Arnaldo Momigliano, "Pagan and Christian Historiography in the Fourth Century," in The Conflict between Paganism and Christianity in the Fourth Century, ed. A. Momigliano (Oxford, 1963 ), p. 85;

[4] Robert Markus, "The Roman Empire in Early Christian Historiography," The Downside Review 81 ( 1963 ): 343;

[5] Charles N. Cochrane, Christianity and Classical Culture (1940; reprint, Oxford, 1966 ), p. 183;

[6] Hendrik Berkhof, Die Theologie des Eusebius von Caesarea (Amsterdam, 1939 ), pp. 21-22;

[7] Hans Eger, "Kaiser und Kirche in der Geschichtstheologie Eusebs von Cäsarea," Zeitschrift
für die neutestamentliche Wissenschaft 38 ( 1939 ): 115;

[8] Per Beskow, Rex Gloriae. The Kingship of Christ in the Early Church (Uppsala, 1962 ), p. 318;

[9] J. M. Sansterre, "Eusèbe de Césarée et la naissance de la théorie 'césaropapiste,'" Byzantion 42 ( 1972 ): 593

The phrase "Eusebius' invention of ecclesiastical history" occurs
multiple times in the article of Momigliano. He definitely looks
at this new appearance of this "ecclesiastic" history, as in a
totally separate category that the normal history, such as that
written by Ammianus Marcellinus.


Best wishes,




Pete
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Old 12-01-2006, 04:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
Do I recall correctly that Eusebius only met him once? (At Nicaea). We are familiar with Eusebius of Caesarea, because his works have such historical importance to us, but I sometimes wonder if Constantine even knew who he was.
Do you honestly think that Eusebius sponsored his own project
of writing his works (HE,IPG,etc). Considering the number of letters
issued by Constantine on the subject of the new Roman religion,
which were all of course retained and quoted by Eusebius, how
do you dismiss the fact that the consensus of opinion now points
to the years 313/314 CE. How could they possibly have avoided one another?



Pete
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Old 12-01-2006, 05:17 PM   #20
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Ahoy, me hearties, why don't you have a say in the affair? You've witnessed parries from mountainman and thrusts from me on the topic and you've heard from the scurvy crew, but what about the rest of you, you lily-livered land lubbers? It's your turn.
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