PhilosopherJay

Hi All,

In my blog, "The Gospel Writers Saw Jesus as 'Son of Man,' Rejected 'Son of God' Label". I offer proof that the gospel writers saw Jesus as "The Son of Man" character and objected to his being called "The Son of God."

Essentially, I point out that Jesus talks about himself being the "Son of Man" 66 times in the Synoptic gospels, but never talks about himself being the "Son of God." The label "Son of God" was put on the Jesus character in opposition to the original writers.

People might find it of interest.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Andykiwi

Not only did they call him "Son of God", but "God, the Son" - a phrase not even found in the Bible, I think.

Juststeve

For those who think that Jesus existed and referred to himself as “son of man” it is useful to know what Jews mean by “son of man”. It is an idiom best understood as "just a regular guy", "a human being as distinct from a god". This meaning is absolutely clear in Numbers 23:19 where it is written that God is not a man nor the son of man. If Jesus applied the term son of man to himself it was for the purpose of differentiating himself from God. If Jesus said that he was saying that I am just a man, not God.

I think this would have presented an insurmountable problem for the growth of Christianity had it remained exclusively among Jews. The first century gentile world however was much more hospitable to blurring the lines between Gods and Men and therefore more hospitable to the idea that Jesus might have been other than a man, no matter what he himself said about the matter.

I don't have time to check but I do wonder how many times Jesus refers to himself as Son Of Man in the gospel of John. Does anyone know?

Steve

stephan huller

The Marcionites already anticipated your argument. Read Against Marcion Book Four. I think the original understanding was that Jesus was the Father repenting from the creation he initiated. The Son was his human initiate who he eventually adopted as a kind of divine god man. He and his descendants sat on the Alexandrian episcopal throne.

Juststeve

Stephen:

I'll take your word for what Marcion thought only to add that his thinking is even further removed from Judaism than Trinitarian Christianity is.

Steve

DCHindley

Book	Son of God	Son of Man
Matthew	8	30
Mark	3	14
Luke	6	25
John	9	13
Acts	1	1
Romans	1	0
2 Corinthians	1	0
Galatians	1	0
Ephesians	1	0
Hebrews	4	1
Revelation	1	2

DCH

Juststeve

DCH:

Thank you. I'm frankly surprised the term is used that much in John, especially given the prologue. It may well give support to the belief that the gospel of John was written by committee and not one person.

Steve

Transient

It is funny looking at how far the church has come these days because now it is normal to see oneself as a christian as an adopted, as it were, son of God and God as one's Father. So for a christian it is natural to think of Jesus as a brother and God as one's father.
I guess Jews don't see God as a father otherwise they would think of themselves as sons - is that the case?

spamandham

No! Absolutely not. The son of man is undeniably a reference to Ezekiel, the one raised up by God himself. There is no sense in which it is meant to mean "just a regular guy".

Haven't you frequently spoken here of your Jewish background? How can you not know who the son of man is?

PhilosopherJay

Hi Juststeve.

If you had read the blog, you would find the answer to your question:

Gospel of John Usage:

Son of Man: 13

Son of God: 8

Jesus refers to himself as the “Son of Man” 13 times. He uses the term “Son of God” four times, but it is uncertain if he is describing himself.

For example, take this use of the term "Son of God"

3.13 No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 3.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up, 3.15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." 3.16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 3.17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 3.18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 3.

The New International version of the Bible has this for 3:18
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son

warmly,

Philosopher Jay