ralfellis

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Water to Wine was a trick jug.

I think everyone is familiar with the 'water to wine' miracle, which is a central Catholic 'proof' that Jesus was divine. But strangely enough, we also know that this famous event was a trick, rather than a miracle. Indeed, we even know who made this trick jug, and we have the original 1st century design too. It was a trick jug made by Hero of Alexandria, the 1st century's Leonardo da Vinci:

http://himedo.net/TheHopkinThomasPro.../section8.html

And so sucessful was this 'water to wine' trick, in 1st century Near Eastern aristocratic circles, that Hero made about a dozen different design.


As Hero of Alexandria himself said of this trick:
"We may also pour in the water first, and then, stopping the vent, pour wine upon it, so as to pour out wine for some, wine and water for others, and mere water for those whom we wish to jest with."


Err, so this miracle was a jest, a joke, and the Catholic Church is effectively saying that David Copperfield and David Blaine are divine 'Sons of God', or something like that.

But I find this situation strange. We have known about Hero's trick jugs for centuries, so why has nobody before myself put forward the obvious deduction that Jesus himself was using one of these very same trick jugs? Ok, one can imagine the Catholics keeping it quiet, but what about all those 'honest' historians not tell us about this trick jug, that was used by the aristocracy and royalty of the Near East to entertain their guests? These are the aspects of this milennial deciet that I cannot understand.

So there we have it. It is more than likely that one of the central proofs of Jesus' divinity was based upon a 1st century party trick. However, this does also mean that the gospel records were based in part on real events, because the details are once more confirmed by history. It also implies that this gospel story was based upon royals or aristocrats, rather than pauper artisans - as I have long argued - for only the richest of families could employ David Copperfield or David Blaine to perform at their high-society wedding (at Cana, between Jesus and Mary Magdalene).


And again, I should point out that I am an Atheist searching for the historical truth, and not a believer shoring up a tottering belief system.

Ralph.

PhilosopherJay

Hi ralfellis,

Good points.

The gospel of John is the only place where the water to wine story is mentioned. It does not seem that to be intended to be a miracle, but a trick. It seems that Jesus is saying that after the guests at a wedding are drunk, you can tell them that you're going to give them the best wine, but you can pour water in the wine containers and serve them the water instead. Because they are drunk, they will think that the best wine is the water. Perhaps the meaning is that you can trick people into believing that water is wine if they're drunk enough. This story has the form of a saying rather than the form of a description of a miracle/magic trick.

It suggests to me that the sayings source came first, and when Jesus was criticized for not doing any miracles, the editors tried to make miracles from the sayings. The feeding miracles seem to be a similar feeble attempt at making a miracle out of a re-edited saying-story about frugality and sharing.

I am not sure where the party trick of Hero of Alexandria comes in. Perhaps, someone who knew of the party trick misread the original text and thought it was about magic because of Hero's party trick.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

ralfellis

Since Jesus was an aristocrat and a royal, as the Talmud confirms, I am sure he had purchased one of Hero of Alexandria's trick jugs while he was in Egypt. Furthermore, if the links to Queen Helena are in any way true, then Jesus had probably employed Hero as his court magician.

Remember that Queen Helena's tomb in Jerusalem was said to have had steam powered automatic doors, which were also made by Hero of Alexandria. (account from Pausanias, if I remember correctly). Thus these Judaean royals would have been very familliar with Hero of Alecandria's many fantastic inventions.


And regards the feeding the 4,000, this is merely alegorical. 'Bread' is often used in the NT for 'knowledge', while the 'yeast' is the 'seed of knowledge' that spreads through a community. Meanwhile, the 'fish' represents the Precessional Age of Pisces, because the Precessional Age (the Great Month) moved from Aries (sheep) to Pisces (fish) in about AD 10. This is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God but became a Fisher of Men, and why the symbol of Christianity became the fish.

Thus the feeding of loaves and fishes is allegorical of 'teaching the knowledge of the Age of Pisces'.

Most of these so-called miracles are explainable in a similar fashion.



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Tommy

Interesting! How are other miracles explained?

DCHindley

Ralph,

As the Cana wedding account in Gospel of John goes, the miracle occurred in water containers holding 2 or 3 "metrētas" (μετρητὰς) each. A metrētas holds about 39 litres (a little over 10 US gallons or 8.6 UK gallons) Each US gallon weighs approximately 8 lbs (UK gallons 10 pounds), so there was at least 180 lbs of water/wine plus the weight of the stone jug. As it is "drawn out" (ἀντλήσατε, to bale bilge water, draw up water, use to the last) per vs 8, and not poured out (ἐπιχέω, καταχέω or ἔβαλω).

What Hero describes is an amphora or other dispenser which can hold both water and wine in separate parts of the container which could, through closing or leaving open vent holes for each compartment, dispense full strength wine (or water) or mixed, as was the custom in the Hellenic world. Basically he invented a practical dispenser able to cater to the preferences of all wine drinkers.*

As for its usefulness as a prank trick, it is only funny to the trickee and the other guests once, and only if they have not encountered such a dispenser beforehand.

DCH

*The pneumatics of Hero of Alexandria from the original Greek: Translated and edited by Bennet Woodcroft, 1851. It is available online on Google Books.

aa5874

What about "feeding the 5000" party trick?? How did "Jesus" trick 5000 MEN into believing they were eating fish and bread??

There is only mythological "truth" in the NT about Jesus.

Now, what about "the raising of the dead party" trick??

Surely, Hero must have bulit a jar for those tricks.

ralfellis

Come come, now, you are presupposing that the gospel author actually saw the trick in action. If he was writing from reports he had heard, he may well have written it as we find it.

As to the usefulness of the trick, I am sorry, but I tune into modern magicians on the TV time after time. Because even if I know they are tricks, I am continually fascinated by how they are done.

And as far as Hero's trick jugs go, this is a particularly difficult trick to solve, as it depends solely on a the magician (Jesus) simply relaxing his thumb pressure on the secret vacuum tube in the handle. Even if you guess that the jug must have internal divisions, you cannot see any movement by the magician - no latches or levers, nothing. To be honest, most people could see this trick ten times, and still be amazed by it.


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ralfellis

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Sorry, but everything is explainable.



Loaves and Fishes.
Bread... In Nazarene Judaism, 'bread' was often used to refer to knowledge. See Math 15:26. Jesus called this woman a dog because she was not Jewish nor Nazarene, and was not entitled to Nazarene wisdom. See also the discussion about 'leaven' (yeast), which even the disciples did not understand.

Fish... This is precessional astrology. In AD 10, the Precessional Age (Great Month) of Aries turned into Pisces. This is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God (Aries) but became a Fisher of Men (Pisces). This is why the symbol of Christianity became the fish. This is why the pope wears the Fisher Ring. This is why Arthurian legend followed the line of Fisher Kings (as well as the Holy Grail).

Thus the Loaves and Fishes 'miracle' was simply a lecture about precessional astronomy - the Knowledge of the Precessional Age (the Great Month) of Pisces.



Raising the Dead.

Part One, Lazarus.
This is simply a Masonic Third Degree ritual, performed in every lodge, complete with the initiate (Lazarus) being 'hoodwinked'. I myself 'died' and was 'resurrected' exactly the same as Lazarus was. The only difference being, that if Lazarus had to remain interred for 3 days, instead of 30 minutes, it was more of an ordeal than my resurrection.



Part Two, Jesus.
If you read the end if Josephus' Vita or Life, you will see that the three leaders of the Jewish Revolt were crucified in the Kidron Valley. This included King Izas-Manu(el) of Adiabene-Edessa (ie, the biblical Jesus).

But Josephus Flavius (of Arimathaea?) petitioned the governor (Titus) for them to be taken down from the cross early. This was done, but two of them died while one survived.

Sound familiar? It should do, because this was the basis of the biblical crucifixion story.



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DCHindley

That is why I noted the word for "draw" or I suppose we might say withdraw. That means with a cup or bucket. No pouring involved here. If the author had meant what you are suggesting, then he would have said something like "and when the servers poured (from a pitcher) into the guests cups, wine came out. You'll notice that the author doesn't have Jesus even so much as touch the Jugs or pitchers.

DCH

Robert Tulip

Hi Ralph. A discussion on the astrotheology of the loaves and fishes miracle as symbolising the shift of the equinox axis into Virgo (loaves) and Pisces (fishes) as the miraculous basis of universal abundance is at http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/...t=3398&start=0

I have since expanded on the analysis presented at this link.