Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steven Carr · 09-11-2003, 07:40 AM

http://sguthrie.net/resurrection.htm

Here Shandon Guthrie states that no Jew believed in a resurrection before Jesus, it could never have happened before Jesus etc

'But the second Jewish theological reason seems to preclude that the disciples would have believed in a resurrection of a single, isolated individual apart from a corporate resurrection at the end of time'

But I thought the disciples saw Moses raised from the dead at the Transfiguration.

The word used is 'opthe', the same word as in 1 Corinthians 15.

Was Moses resurrected at the Transfiguration , or just resuscitated, to die again as Lazarus died again after he was raised from the dead?

How can Christians maintain that the disciples could have seen Moses raised from the dead, and never have developed a belief that a single individual could be resurrected before the general resurrection at the end of time?

Guthrie decries parallels between Jesus and Osiris as follows 'Osiris was not resurrected but was resuscitated back to life.'

So Guthrie must believe Moses had just been resuscitated.

So why did Moses not die again?

Doctor X · 09-11-2003, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Here Shandon Guthrie states that no Jew believed in a resurrection before Jesus, . . .

Most interesting coincidence since I finished reading this last night:

Quote:

By the merit of Isaac who offered [hiqrîb] himself upon the altar, Holy One (blessed be He) will in the future resurrect the dead, as it is written:

That is from Pesikta de-Rab (sic) Kahana, zõ't habbêraka . . . of course . . . which Levenson quotes.

Now, looking for a date for the Pesikta I found this interesting quote:

Quote:

When Rabbi Yochanan saw him, he thought that Rav Kahana was mocking him, and he felt insulted. This upset Rav Kahana so much that he died. Afterward, they explained to Rabbi Yochanan that Rav Kahana hadn�t been smiling�he only looks that way because his lip is scarred. Rabbi Yochanan then went to Rav Kahana�s grave and brought him back to life. So it is possible to exchange major suffering for minor suffering. He exchanged seven years for seven rows. [The Rav�s words imply that an actual heavenly death decree had been hanging over Rav Kahana, since we see that he fled to the Land of Israel because of this death decree. And, in fact, he did die in Israel; it was only that Rabbi Yochanan revived him. We find, then, that the Rav learned two things from what happened�that he had exchanged death for suffering, and that he had exchanged a decree of major suffering for seven years for the minor suffering of being demoted seven rows.]

Shuvu Bonin

a Rabbi resurrects another Rabbi!

DAMN!

Quote:

Leviticus Rabbah is among the oldest midrashim, probably composed in 5th century Palestine, because many of its stories and folktales reflect the conditions and circumstances of life in the Galilee region that was the center of Jewish life in Palestine at that time. Much of the book's halakhah and customs also reflect the specific practices of Palestinian Jewry from that period. The midrashim quoted often reference their authors, Palestinian tannaim or amoraim, and its editor was familiar with the material in the Mishnah, Tosefta, and Jerusalem Talmud. The style of the midrash, however, does not reflect the other texts being compiled at the time. Leviticus Rabbah is similar in style to Pesikta deRav Kahana, and may have been written by the same author.

JTSA

which puts it post-Junior . . . well, I am corresponding with a professor of Jewish Studies and will see if I can come up with a counter-example--such as if these conceptions were considered earlier than the composition.

Walks away muttering. . . .

References:

Peskita de Rav Kahana. Bernard Mandelbaum, ed. New York: Jewish Theological Seminary, 5722/1962.

Levenson JD. The Death and Resurrection of the Beloved Son: the Transformation of Child Sacrifice in Judaism and Christianity. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1993

09-11-2003, 07:40 AM	#1
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Unprecedented Resurrections? http://sguthrie.net/resurrection.htm Here Shandon Guthrie states that no Jew believed in a resurrection before Jesus, it could never have happened before Jesus etc 'But the second Jewish theological reason seems to preclude that the disciples would have believed in a resurrection of a single, isolated individual apart from a corporate resurrection at the end of time' But I thought the disciples saw Moses raised from the dead at the Transfiguration. The word used is 'opthe', the same word as in 1 Corinthians 15. Was Moses resurrected at the Transfiguration , or just resuscitated, to die again as Lazarus died again after he was raised from the dead? How can Christians maintain that the disciples could have seen Moses raised from the dead, and never have developed a belief that a single individual could be resurrected before the general resurrection at the end of time? Guthrie decries parallels between Jesus and Osiris as follows 'Osiris was not resurrected but was resuscitated back to life.' So Guthrie must believe Moses had just been resuscitated. So why did Moses not die again?

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