Johnny Skeptic

How utterly absurd. If the God of the Bible does not exist, that accounts for actions by Pharoah, Moses, Daniel & Cyrus etc. There is not way that a loving God would frequetly mimic that way that things would be if he did not exist, thereby undermining his attempts to try to convince people to believe that he exists.

Consider the following Scriptures:

"John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."

"John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

Now what kind of rational God would provide people with tangible firsthand evidence like that and frequently choose to provide lots of other people with evidence that mimics the way that things would be if he did not exist?

No he couldn't.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explain why humans have to do what God ought to be doing much of himself. Why would God frequently mimic the way that things would be if he did not exist, thereby needlessly causing doubt and confusion?

If the God of the Bible does not exist, there would be suspicious an unexplainable statistics regarding why people believe what they believe. Kosmin and Lachman wrote a book that is titled 'One Nation Under God.' Billy Graham endorses the book on the cover or on one of the inside pages. The book is well-documented. The authors show that the primary factors that influence religious beliefs in the U.S. are geography, family, race, ethnicity, gender, and age. The evidence shows that in the U.S., the percentage of women who are Christians is a good deal higher than the percentage of men who are Christians. I forget what the exact percentage is, but I can find it if I need to. As far as I recall, the percentage difference is over 7%. It is important to note that every year, the percentage of women who are Christians is a good deal higher than the percentage of men who are Christians. That is quite suspicious.

The authors show that elderly skeptics are much less likely to change their worldview than younger skeptics are, and that elderly Christians are much less likely to become skeptics than younger Christians are. If God exists, this means that he discriminates against elderly skeptics and younger Christians. If God does not exist, that explains why elderly people are much less likely to change their worldviews than younger people are. Again, if the God of the Bible exists, it is quite odd that he mimics that way that things would be if he did not exist.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explains why the Gospel message was distributed entirely by humans. If God does exist, he is more concerned with HOW people hear about the Gospel message than he is with THAT they hear the Gospel message, and with mimicking the way that the Gospel message would be spread if he does not exist. No loving, rational God would ever act like that.

We have a similar case regarding the distribution of food. James says that if a man refuses to give food to a hungry person that his faith is dead, but God has refused to give food to millions of people who died of starvation. If God does not exist, that explains why all distribution of food is done by humans. If God does exist, then he is more concerned with HOW people get enough food to eat than he is with THAT people get enough food to eat, and with mimicking the way that food would be distributed if he does not exist. No loving, rational God would ever act like that.

Obviously, your convenient "God frequently uses men and nations for his own purposes" argument is fraudulent, and is exactly what would be the case if the God of the Bible does not exist.

You have still failed to explain why God would frequently choose to mimic the ways that things would be if he did not exist, thereby undermining his attempt to reasonably prove that he exists. No loving, rational God would ever go out of his way to mimic the ways that things would be if he did not exist. If a loving God exists, there is no way that it could be predicted that every year, the percentage of women in the U.S. who are Christians would be a good deal higher than the percentage of men who are Christians, and that the percentage of elderly skeptics who become Christians would be much smaller than the percentage of younger skeptics who become Christians, and that the percentage of younger Christians who become skeptics would be much larger than the percentage of elderly Christians who become skeptics. If a loving God exists, the odds against those things being the way that they are are astronomical. If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explains why the primary factors that determine why people believe what they believe are geography, family, race, ethnicity, gender, age, and time period.

According to you, it is reasonable for God to save a man, and then turn right around and seriously injure or kill him, and to bless some evil people with good health and lots of money, and to cause animals to kill each other and humans.

Last but not least, might does not make right. Who appointed you to judge that it is acceptable for God to run the universe, and that he is perfect?

sugarhitman

Source please

sugarhitman

You are way off topic. If you want to accuse God of evil create a thread and we will debate there. That said Israel does prove God's existence. :wave:

arnoldo

You obviously have appointed yourself judge of God himself. Do you have proof God doesn't exist? What is your belief system?

Johnny Skeptic

Are you saying that if Jewish and Palestinian history had been reversed, and Palestinians had been persecuted by Hitler and other parties instead of Jews, that the partition of Palestine would have awarded control of Jerusalem to the Palestinians, and would have awarded a grossly unfair amount of land per capita to Palestians such as the Jews got? In addition, are you saying that the Bible did not have anything to with the partition of Palestine.

A brief history lesson is in order here. During the first part of the Second World War, the U.S. did not have any troops in Europe. At that time, did the U.S. fight along side of the British? No. Did aid from the U.S. prevent Hitler from defeating Britain? Yes. Would Palestine have been partitioned the way that it was partioned without help from nations who were predominanantly Christian? No. If Jewish and Palestinian history had been reversed, and Palestinians had been persecuted by Hitler and other parties instead of Jews, would the United Nations have granted the Jews control of Jerusalem and awarded Palestians a grossly unfair amount of land per capita to like the Jews got? No.

Johnny Skeptic

It is absurd for anyone to believe that a God exists who wants people to believe that he can predict the future. If he did, all that he would have needed to do would have been to make some indisputable predictions regarding when and where some natural disasters would occur. By "when," I mean month, day, and year.

There is no way that God intended for prophecy to strengthen the faith of Old Testament Jews. If he did, he would have told Ezekiel about Alexander. As it was, generations of Jews died without seeing the Tyre prophecy fulfilled. They certainly believed that it would be fulfilled during their lifetimes. First of all, they believed that God was angry with the Tyrians, and wanted to destroy Tyre. They certainly would not have believed that it would take centuries for God to punish the Tyrians. In addition, they certainly would not have expected God to punish the Tyrians' great great great great grandchildren for the ancestors' sins. Further, it was wrong for God to punish Tyrian babies for sins that their parents committed.

There is no way that Ezekiel would have predicted that "a king of kings" (Nebuchadnezzar) would invade Tyre, go down its streets, and tear down its towers, and fail to conquer Tyre. When it became obvious that Nebuchadnezzar was not going to defeat Tyre, that is when someone added the "many nations" part to Ezekiel 26, and falsely claimed in Ezekiel 29 that God would give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre.

There is little doubt that Ezekiel knew of Nebuchadnezzar's plans to invade Tyre in advance. Nebuchadnezzar had a penchant for conquest, and his kingdom was located close to Tyre. Since even the New Testament criticizes Tyre, a reasonable case can be made that Jews and Christians were jealous of the wealth of Tyre, and wanted God to punish Tyre because the Tyrians were able to gain wealth that they were not able to gain. Considering the fact that most of the people in the world at that time who had heard about the God of the Bible opposed him, it is an absurd notion that God would pick on just one kingdom out of all of the kingdoms in the world, take centuries to cause the defeat of the kingdom, inspire Ezekiel to claim that "a kings of kings" would invade Tyre and fail to defeat it, and break his word to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre. If anything, the Tyre prophecy weakened the faith of generations of Jews, strengthened the faith of generations of Tyrians, and reduced the size of the current Christian church by failing to mention that Alexander would defeat Tyre.

The Tyre prophecy is one of the very best examples that proves that the Bible is fraudulent.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explains why all tangible benefits are indiscriminately distributed at random by the laws of physics without any regard for a person's needs, worldview, or requests, and that the only benefits that any Christian could ask God for and expect to received would be subjective spiritual/emotional benefits.

sugarhitman

The Jews did see Tyre defeated by Babylon but they like you rejected the prophecy. Oh by the way, Israel does in fact prove that God exist. Yes it does my friend. :wave:

arnoldo

How do you know you can rely on any so called historical proof that this prophecy did/didn't occur? Just because you misunderstand or misinterpret a bible prophecy doens't mean that God lied. Frequently bible prophecy had dual fulfilments, for example Yeshua fulfilled the prophecy of a suffering servant two thousand years ago and in his second return he will fulfill the prophecy of King of Israel. A prophecy you claim has failed to occur may simply be waiting to be fulfilled in full in the future. Your arguments are absurd and the proof that Israel is in existence this very moment is proof of God's existence.

makerowner

The Tyre prophecy in Ezekiel 26 says that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre. He didn't, and he's long dead. Ergo, the prophecy failed.

arnoldo

Just because you misunderstand or misinterpret prophecy doesn't mean it failed, Ergo, Israel proves God's existence.