Duvduv

I know what it says, but the words themselves do not provide any meaning or context!

Toto

Duvduv - this is what sotto voce means but won't actually say.

The charge has been made, as you say, that the use of the term 'rabbi' in the gospels is an anachronism, because 'rabbi' was not used in that sense in first century Palestine. This is part of the case for dating the gospels to well past 70 CE, and for making the case that they are not based on actual historical memory or records.

sotto voce states that that this theory is "a groundless hypothesis." He implies that "people foolish enough to call themselves 'rabbi' today" - i.e. Jews - would use this as an excuse to reject Jesus' claim to be the Messiah, as if there were no other reasons to reject Christians' attempted appropriation of the Jewish religion. But evidently sotto isn't sure enough of this claim to defend it.

Duvduv

OK, whatever.........back to more substantive issues......

sotto voce

So kind. Yet bunkum.

aa5874

How in the world you know what sotto vocemeans if he won't say?

Please let sotto voce tell us what he means because he may accuse of mis-representing him.

And I don't really want to hear what you PRESUME he means.

Toto

If Mr. voce means something other than what I wrote, he may correct me. He declines to do so. You may draw your own conclusions.

aa5874

I am not intereseted at all in what you presumed. I draw ZERO conclusions from PRESUMPTIONS.

DCHindley

The two leaves from Codex Climaci rescriptus are written in the estrangelo dialect of Syriac, also known as "Palestinian Christian Aramaic." PCA is believed by a number of experts to be the kind of Aramaic spoken in Palestine around the time of Jesus. I did not catch anything about the Vatican, unless the rest of the manuscript is held there. The "illegal" copy of the bible spoken of previously was banned by the King of England, an Anglican (COE), not the Vatican.

DCH

sotto voce

The collection is to be exhibited in the Vatican. Apart from the modern desire of the Vatican to associate itself with the Bible, there may be the added incentive of propagating the belief that Jesus spoke Aramaic exclusively, which it thinks supports its claim to existence via Mt 16:18.

DCHindley

I am not aware of the Vatican having any particular position on the languages Jesus spoke. Are you thinking of breakaway Catholic Mel Gibson's movie "Passion of Christ?" He does not represent the Pope or the Roman Catholic church in general. David Green, president of Hobby Lobby Inc whitch operates over 400 retail craft stores, is a Baptist who happens to have an interest in the textual remains of bible texts, and based on his comments, he seems to be rather well informed about them (I did not note any factual errors in his statements, or obvious bias other than his admiration for the texts).

While the Gospels were written in Greek, and feature quotes attributed to him, common inscriptions as well as Aramisms in the Greek gospels indicate that the peasant language, as well as that of the Judean temple authorities, was Aramaic. Josephus and even Talmudic sayings suggest that Jews who studied Greek language were the exceptions, like Philo, not the rule. The common language of the Roman governors of Judea and the client king Agrippa, ruler of Galilee and Perea, and Greek cities or estates under control of Roman elites was Greek.

DCH