FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-26-2007, 09:04 AM   #21
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Quote:
the newspaper used the word 'swallow' because people it assumes that most people know what it means. Those who do not can look it up in a dictionary, of course.
But (for the 3d or 4th time now) there's no need. Because, according to you,
Quote:
Recognizing a non-literal meaning is not dependent upon studying the meaning of words?

No, it is not.
there's no need to know the meaning of the words.
That isn't what I wrote, though. I can see a dictionary will be of no use until you learn to read accurately.
Clouseau is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:13 AM   #22
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
But (for the 3d or 4th time now) there's no need. Because, according to you, there's no need to know the meaning of the words.
That isn't what I wrote, though. I can see a dictionary will be of no use until you learn to read accurately.
I quoted what you wrote, so there would be no confusion. What you wrote is self-contradictory. You say that's my reading comprehension problem. I say it's your writing problem. I have to tell you I've lived a long time, making my living reading and writing. I'm not aware of anyone - other than the occasional internet Fundy - who has ever impeached my reading skills.

So, consider: the problem here might possibly be yours.

If you want to amend, or explain, please do. But perhaps you'd rather just be smarmy.
VoxRat is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:21 AM   #23
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
That isn't what I wrote, though. I can see a dictionary will be of no use until you learn to read accurately.
I quoted what you wrote
Out of context.
Clouseau is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:49 AM   #24
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaleq13 View Post

And how do you differentiate between these two meanings without considering the meaning of the words?
You mean how do you differentiate between these two senses without considering the meaning of the words. The sense is derived from the context. I got the phrase 'hard to swallow' from a newspaper headline. I still don't know which sense is meant, as I have not read the article beneath, but the newspaper used the word 'swallow' because it assumes that most people know what it means. Those who do not can look it up in a dictionary, of course.
We were supposed to be dealing with metaphors, not cliches like "hard to swallow". As it is such a well-worn phrase, the reader processes "hard to swallow" as a semantic unit. How it applies, yes, you have to read the article, but it is no use to your argument.

When Shakespeare wrote, "All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players..." this was an extended metaphor and the reader/listener had to know what each word meant to understand how the metaphor worked. One needed to understand that the definition of "world" didn't fit with the definition of "stage". How can one make sense of "Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York" without having grappled with the significance of each word in its context and found that you couldn't grasp the meaning until you read/heard more? Metaphor works against the usual semantic content provided by the words in the figure of speech. If you don't know the meanings of the individual words, then you won't understand the metaphor.


spin
spin is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:01 PM   #25
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
I quoted what you wrote
Out of context.
Out of patience.
Sadly, I conclude that The Inspector is more interested in honing his snarkiness skills than in any meaningful exchange of ideas.
VoxRat is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:13 PM   #26
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Out of context.
Quote:
Out of patience.
Out of road.
Clouseau is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:21 PM   #27
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Paradise! aka Panama City Beach, Fla. USofA
Posts: 1,923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Out of road.
Good fig, bad "Christian".
DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 01:32 PM   #28
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: nowhere
Posts: 15,747
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoxRat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
Out of context.
Out of patience.
Out of road.
Out of mind.
spin is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 02:06 PM   #29
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Eagle River, Alaska
Posts: 7,816
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
You mean how do you differentiate between these two senses without considering the meaning of the words.
No, I specifically used the synonym "meaning" for "senses" to highlight the absurdity of your statement. That you continue to refuse to acknowledge it is simply bizarre.

Do you honestly not understand that the "sense" of a word is the "meaning" of the word?

Is English not your first language?

Quote:
The sense is derived from the context.
Yes, the meaning of a word is derived from context.
Quote:
Those who do not can look it up in a dictionary, of course.
I suggest you refer to a thesaurus. Everybody else here seems to have an adequate grasp on the terminology.

You either have a poor grasp of the language or you are playing games.

The former can be rectified through effort while the latter can only be rectified by administrator action.
Amaleq13 is offline  
Old 09-26-2007, 02:44 PM   #30
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaleq13 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouseau View Post
You mean how do you differentiate between these two senses without considering the meaning of the words.
Quote:
No, I specifically used the synonym "meaning" for "senses"
They aren't synonyms. The word 'swallow' has either a literal or a metaphoric sense, but only one meaning in use in 'hard to swallow'. The meaning of a word is derived from a dictionary, the sense is derived from context. Even the context of the phrase 'hard to swallow' is insufficient to determine sense. One needs a whole sentence or at least a clause to determine sense.
Clouseau is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:58 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.