Newton's Cat

Scholars have noted that Mark 1,5 reads:

... and went out to him ALL the Judaean country and the Jerusalemites ALL, and were baptised by him in the Jordan River confessing the sins of them.

... which, if taken literally, describes a scene of hundreds of thousands of people flocking out to John.

Their explanation is that 'all' does not mean "all" - but "many people".

But - what if the author DID mean "all"? Could it be that he was writing a work of fiction that the readers were supposed to read as such? Were the readers of this work supposed to understand that it was a vehicle for the author's criticisms of contemporary Judaism - using the fictional character, Jesus, King of the Jews as the mouthpiece for his opinions?

Could be?

Indeed, when I read the Gospel of Mark it only makes sense to me as a "made up" storyline.

spin

From somewhere in the backblocks of my mind comes the lyric of a song:

"Everybody's talkin' at me
I can't hear their voices
Only the echoes of their minds"

Does the singer really mean everybody? I mean really and truly?? I think the process deals with everybody observed. The trend is that nobody in my perception is not talking at me, so I think, "everybody's talking at me".

The trend in the gospel story is that everyone was going out to him. That's quite normal. Hey, he might have been half blind, one way or another, but it's still a reasonable statement. At least that makes sense; it is not a fabrication, just an observation from a viewpoint. And there is no need that they were all goind at once.

And it is not a particularly interesting type of literalism to baulk at. Forgive me for being blunt, but what does one hope to achieve with such a quibble? There are lots of problems with the establishment religion that the babes in neverland choke over if they ever wake up to. Such potential problems as the one you point out here won't have much of an effect, if they rise to it at all.


spin

Zeichman

Not to mention that Mark's Greek is pretty bad.

Vorkosigan

It's a bad argument, but it does inadvertantly highlight some interesting issues. The idea of vast crowds following the hero is a staple of Hellenistic fiction. There was an earlier thread on Acts in which I gave a number of examples.

As for Mark's Greek being low caliber, what does that have to do with anything? People write fiction in their first and second languages.

Vorkosigan

JoeWallack

JW:
"Mark" is dominated by the Literary technique of Irony.

Start: Everyone listens to the Messenger (John)

End: No one listens to the Messenger (Angel)

The Filler is that "The Jews" are obsessed with the supposed Messenger for the Messiah (Elijah) and while waiting for Elijah who's not there personally, miss (blind) the Messiah (Jesus), who's right in front of their noses.

"Mark" may have originally been written in Latin and then translated (badly)
into Greek. "Mark" was likely recognized as Fiction to an initial audience that had never heard this Type of Gospel story before but only to the extent it exxxaggerated whatever was believed at the time. What was believed at the time? God knows.



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

Zeichman

His vocabulary being the limiting factor in terms of his use of "pas, pasa pan" was my point.

pharoah

The "Mark as fiction" story doesn't wash with me. It would strain credublility to believe that the rest of the NT authors would try to build a religion around a character that's known to be fictitious to the people they're trying to convert. The 1st century man may have been gullible, but I wouldn't take them to be complete idiots.

Toto

Why should they be any different from modern people?

Jedi religion grows in Australia

Besides, by the time the rest of the NT authors came along, the religion was already there, based on reading the Hebrew Bible creatively.

pharoah

Interesting story, but no dice. This is just some Star Wars fans having some fun at the expense of the Australian government. In no way whatsoever can this be compared to the start of Christianity.

spin

Yup. It's what's euphemistically called a pisstake.


spin