Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 03-11-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naphtali Jones

I agree, enough of this two way pissing match. I feel that my questions have generally been answered and I have been given a lot to think about and study. Is there any more information of I which I need to be aware

Yes, there is more information of which you need be aware, far, far, more information than will ever be revealed on this forum, but if you are honest, and if you are a man of true integrity, with even a modicum of faith, and you are honestly seeking, you will find. Thousands of sites, and books without number I could recommend, but this is a journey that begins within.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naphtali Jones

Sheshbazzar, I appreciate your honesty and knowledge on the subject, but I have to say that IMHO your underlying philosophy is irrational. It reminds me of the story of Pangloss (Candide by Voltaire) in which he believes that everything is as it must be, the best of all possible worlds. If everything was put into place by divine order I can't see why contradictions and randomness would exist. And why would you then attach so much importance to YHWH and the Torah. By your theory, these writings would be of no more importance to humankind than the message on last night's fortune cookie.

There is a time to every purpose under heaven, a time to eat, and a time to digest that which was eaten.
Over thirty years now I have walked in this way, but unlike Pangloss, I believe that most all iswrong with the world, and await a Day when all that is wrong will be corrected, (the "Restitution of All Things") until then we must endure whatever it is that Reality brings our way, a measure of joy, and of good lest we lose hope, yet much troubles lest we become too comfortable.
To me this is no "theory" but a way of life. the TaNaKa is as my map and guidebook, revealing the high places, and the low, its sayings encouraging me in times of sorrow and troubles, yet humbling me with its insight and ancient wisdom. I bless YHWH, and receive as brethren all that call upon His Name, and await His Salvation (Y'shua) The Messiah Yah-hoshua.
You may read much more about this by searching the Internet. Shalom

Really sorry about the pissing match, praying for that Day it finally ends.

Sheshbazzar · 03-11-2006, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

Fyi, Shachar was the proper name of one of El’s sons. The Bible says he was the father of Helel.

Isaiah 14:12

Look how you have fallen from the sky,

Helel, son of Shachar!

You have been cut down to the ground,

to defeat the nations!

You said to yourself,

“I will climb up to the sky.

Above the stars of El

I will set up my throne.

I will rule on the mountain of assembly

on the remote slopes of Zaphon.

I will climb up to the tops of the clouds;

I will make myself like the Most High!”

Why shouldn’t Shachar’s name be capitalized?

The guys over at Net™ Bible® say I can do it.

Read the footnotes.

I thought you understood this stuff.

I thought you loved Yahweh.

Don’t you think you owe it to Yahweh to get up to speed on this subject?

It seems to me like it is the only honest and intelligent thing to do.

It introduces new possibilities and raises interesting questions.

For example:

If Helel was the son of Shachar, then did Helel have wings too?

When Yahweh flew on the wings of his cherubs, did he ever have any near mid-air mishaps with with Shachar or Helel?

See what I mean?

I think you are missing some of the best parts of the Bible. Spelling ‘name’ with a capital N, or ‘God’ with an underscore pales by comparison.

Have your own way Loomis, I'm sure you will be able find, or create a new "version" of any verse in the book, and of course you do have the guys over at Net Bible giving you permission.
However it is precisely because I do love YHWH my Elohim, that I do not need to eat of any of the victuals that you set forth upon your uncleansed table.
I and my brethren sit our Masters table, where we all drink of one cup, eat of one bread, sharing one plate, and one meat.

Fly, fly, hither and yon, fly high, fly low, fly high fly, you have an appointment with the swatter.

Sheshbazzar · 03-11-2006, 04:40 PM

And all of this pissing could have been avoided, had Loomis only came forward with his list of the verses in Genesis where he thinks that the Name YHWH was substituted into the text.
Really is that such an unreasonable request?

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

And all of this pissing could have been avoided, had Loomis only came forward with his list of the verses in Genesis where he thinks that the Name YHWH was substituted into the text.
Really is that such an unreasonable request?

You challenged me to present a translation to support my claim that Shachar was the name of a god in the Bible, and then when I provided one you ran away.

Why should we respect you at all?

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

And all of this pissing could have been avoided, had Loomis only came forward with his list of the verses in Genesis where he thinks that the Name YHWH was substituted into the text.
Really is that such an unreasonable request?

Are you inventing the list and limiting things to Genesis because you can’t handle Psalm 14?

If anyone wants to see how decent, honest, well-informed, or truth loving you are, then all they have to do is go back and see how you handled Genesis 14.

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Fly, fly, hither and yon, fly high, fly low, fly high fly, you have an appointment with the swatter.

Fat chance.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

No kidding.

Sheshbazzar · 03-11-2006, 06:08 PM

To the readers of this thread, I submit my apologies, it has been successfully derailed from its original topic by Loomis, and while I could continue in a protracted disputation with him over the correct renderings of the Psalms that he has deflected this threads attention to, I will not do so in this thread.
Respectfully, Sheshbazzar

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

To the readers of this thread, I submit my apologies, it has been successfully derailed from its original topic by Loomis, and while I could continue in a protracted disputation with him over the correct renderings of the Psalms that he has deflected this threads attention to, I will not do so in this thread.
Respectfully, Sheshbazzar

If you can support your views, claims, and opinions, with facts, then why don’t you just present them?

Why are you always inventing artificial things (like “my list") to hold you back?

Why are you always waiting for the right conditions to unleash your irrefutable counter-evidence?

Is there any reason to think you aren’t just clueless? :rolling:

Why did you run away from the Shachar thing?

Do you think Shachar's wings were oily?

Did they have feathers?

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 06:31 PM

Hey Sheshbazzar,

Why not tell the readers how you arrived at your conclusion that Shachar has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

Loomis · 03-11-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

If that is the correct view regarding this verse, the implication is that it also had to be inserted into each and every preceding verse in which it also appears, including specifically Eve's speech in Gen. 4:1.

Why?

Just tell us.

Go for it.

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03-11-2006, 04:40 PM	#73
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	And all of this pissing could have been avoided, had Loomis only came forward with his list of the verses in Genesis where he thinks that the Name YHWH was substituted into the text. Really is that such an unreasonable request?

03-11-2006, 06:08 PM	#77
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	To the readers of this thread, I submit my apologies, it has been successfully derailed from its original topic by Loomis, and while I could continue in a protracted disputation with him over the correct renderings of the Psalms that he has deflected this threads attention to, I will not do so in this thread. Respectfully, Sheshbazzar

03-11-2006, 06:31 PM	#79
Loomis Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The recesses of Zaphon Posts: 969	Hey Sheshbazzar, Why not tell the readers how you arrived at your conclusion that Shachar has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

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