Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 02-10-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The Galatians writer did NOT need any human being to tell him about Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

[Agreed. Paul zealously insisted that his gospel was the result of a private, direct revelation. Still, he wrote that Jesus was "born of a woman" and was according to the flesh, "a descendant of Daivd."

Well, you must have completely forgotten that Paul INSISTED and CERTIFIED that he was NOT the apostle of a human being and that his gospel was NOT from humans but from the resurrected Jesus. See Galatians 1.

You MUST have completely forgotten that Jesus Christ of the Canon was born of a woman and Fathered by a Ghost.

You MUST have completely forgotten that NO author of the NT claimed Jesus had a human father.

You seem to have NO idea what "God Incarnate" means.

The Pauline Jesus is compatible with the doctrine of the Church that Jesus was GOD in the flesh--born of a Woman but of the seed of God without a human father.

It is completely illogical, absurd, ridiculous, to use the Canon of the Church, a Non-Heretical document, to argue that the Canonised Pauline writings are BLATANTLY heretical and was publicly known to be heretical and condemned by the very Church which Canonised them.

You MUST try harder to understand the significance of a Canon or you will continue to make the very same massive errors.

Duvduv · 02-10-2012, 08:46 AM

Take a look at this quote from the Epistle to Romans ascribed to Ignatius, where Jesus only became the Seed of David AFTER the crucifixion:

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 7, 110 A.D.:

I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly Bread, the Bread of Life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; I wish the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

Thus this author either understood the reference in the epistle in a novel way, or both were expressing an idea about the non-physical Jesus derived from elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Well, duh....isn't every human born of a woman! What's novel about that if it refers to a historical Jesus! And why say woman instead of....Mary?
And even if Jesus we're considered a spiritual being if he was some kind of messianic being he'd still be a metaphysical descendant of David.
But you know what? Woman could also refer to a celestial woman concept since the Greek word does not refer to birth per se. Earl Doherty discusses this.
Plus it is also logical that seed of David was a marginal gloss that was included by some scribe. Who knows how many times the letters were handled?
And Paul was only zealous about his revelation in Galatians and not in the other epistles.

sotto voce · 02-10-2012, 08:57 AM

(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Take a look at this quote from the Epistle to Romans ascribed to St. Ignatius, where Jesus only became the Seed of David AFTER the crucifixion

Now that's what I call a miracle.

Duvduv · 02-10-2012, 09:29 AM

How else should I call him? Mr. Ephraim or Rabbi Ephraim?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Take a look at this quote from the Epistle to Romans ascribed to St. Ignatius, where Jesus only became the Seed of David AFTER the crucifixion

Now that's what I call a miracle.

(How is it that Duvduv knows who is a saint, btw?)

sotto voce · 02-10-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

How else should I call him? Mr. Ephraim or Rabbi Ephraim?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

(
Now that's what I call a miracle.

(How is it that Duvduv knows who is a saint, btw?)

Ephraim, Ignatius, in standard scholarly manner.

Duvduv · 02-10-2012, 09:59 AM

I just went back and edited it.

sotto voce · 02-10-2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

I just went back and edited it.

Gracias, señor. Reciprocated.

andrewcriddle · 02-11-2012, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Take a look at this quote from the Epistle to Romans ascribed to Ignatius, where Jesus only became the Seed of David AFTER the crucifixion:

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 7, 110 A.D.:

I desire the Bread of God, the heavenly Bread, the Bread of Life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; I wish the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.

Thus this author either understood the reference in the epistle in a novel way, or both were expressing an idea about the non-physical Jesus derived from elsewhere.

Ignatius, I think, means that Christ was the Son of God from the beginning of the world (or earlier), but became the descendant of David and Abraham at the Incarnation.

Andrew Criddle

Chili · 02-11-2012, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

I'd tend to think it would better indicate a final release from the insanity endemic to this life.
Thank god for our death, when we no longer have to deal with this insane stupid religious shit.

Perhaps death is when insanity really starts.

Sanity is where 'humanity' is rationally elevated inside the realm of pleasure and pain, and insanity is where humanity ends to yield Pure Reason without the -ly suffix and so its opposite in irrational is removed to yield pleasure without pain.

Chili · 02-11-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

[I see the plot of gMark to end in this way. Jesus first doubted his god when he quoted the prayer of Psalm 22:1: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" The alleged answer that he thought he received was something like:

"I have forsaken you because you are not the Messiah." Hence, his cry of agony as Jesus' last action just prior to dying.

Note that I am not here arguing that this plot development is historical, only that it was the view that gMark presented.

Yes and Eloi is a twist on Eli such as our 'gosh' is on 'God,' poor guy.

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02-10-2012, 09:59 AM	#46
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	I just went back and edited it.

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