Originally Posted by Toto

Do a search on Skythopolis in the archives. The subject has been discussed before,
but the information has bounced off mountainman's protective headgear.

The last thread:Christian death camps

Originally Posted by Ammianus

SOURCE

XII.

§ 1. But amid these causes of anxiety, as if in accordance with old-established custom, instead of the signal for civil war, the trumpet sounded groundless charges of treason, and a secretary, whom we shall often have to speak of, named Paulus, was sent to inquire into these charges. He was a man skilful in all the contrivances of cruelty, making gain and profit of tortures and executions, as a master of gladiators does of his fatal games.

2. For as he was firm and resolute in his purpose of |208 injuring people, he did not abstain even from theft, and invented all kinds of causes for the destruction of innocent men, while engaged in this miserable campaign.

3. A slight and trivial circumstance afforded infinite material for extending his investigations. There is a town called Abydum in the most remote corner of the Egyptian Thebais, where an oracle of the god, known in that region by the name of Besa, had formerly enjoyed some celebrity for its prophecies, and had sacred rites performed at it with all the ceremonies anciently in use in the neighbouring districts.

4. Some used to go themselves to consult this oracle, some to send by others documents containing their wishes, and with prayers couched in explicit language inquired the will of the deities; and the paper or parchment on which their wants were written, after the answer had been given, was sometimes left in the temple.

5. Some of these were spitefully sent to the emperor, and he, narrow minded as he was, though often deaf to other matters of serious consequence, had, as the proverb says, a soft place in his ear for this kind of information; and being of a suspicious and petty temper, became full of gall and fury; and immediately ordered Paulus to repair with all speed to the East, giving him authority, as to a chief of great eminence and experience, to try all the causes as he pleased.

6. And Modestus also, at that time count of the East, a man well suited for such a business, was joined with him in this commission. For Hermogenes of Pontus, at that time prefect of the praetorium, was passed over as of too gentle a disposition.

7. Paulus proceeded, as he was ordered, full of deadly eagerness and rage; inviting all kinds of calumnies, so that numbers from every part of the empire were brought before him, noble and low born alike; some of whom were condemned to imprisonment, others to instant death.

8. The city which was chosen to witness these fatal scenes was Scythopolis in Palestine, which for two reasons seemed the most suitable of all places; first, because it was little frequented and secondly, because it was halfway between Antioch and Alexandria, from which city many of those brought before this tribunal came.

Originally Posted by Iskander

It is rather odd to see non-Christians pouring out so much nonsense about Christianity.

Originally Posted by mountainman

Read the non Christian Ammianus. Isn't it lucky we are only dealing with the history of the 4th century and not the present day.




Everyone is entitled to draw or not to draw conclusions.

Originally Posted by Iskander

When Lane Fox writes,"The postscript to his Oration at Antioch was to be rather more robust: torture of pagans "in authority in the city" so that they admitted religious fraud." He probably means that the confrontation between the old and the new resulted in isolated incidents ....

Originally Posted by mountainman

Constantine obviously meant to torture the religious frauds. His army was ordered to destroy temples and publically execute chief priests. His policy is single minded, and his orders to torture the leading citizens and magistrates of Antioch is quite in keeping with his other actions.

I think we will find that Lane Fox's source is Eusebius, in "Vita Constantini".

Originally Posted by Iskander

I have read Ammianus and I have this book in front of me right now, but book XII is not there. It is missing and the introduction says it did not survive.

My book begins at chapter 14.

The preface says that only one single nine-century manuscript has survived and that this extant copy is disfigured by many corruptions and lacunae. It also says that only books 14-31 survive.

From where did you get book XII?

Originally Posted by Iskander

Source for book XII of Ammianus is needed.

You interpretation of Lane fox is nothing but a distortion to give spurious support to your hate and excite the cheerleaders.

Originally Posted by mountainman

Its Chapter XII from Book 19.

I think the earlier books may have been too contraversial for the Christians to preserve.




Despite what you (or others) may think or believe, my research is not motivated by any hate for people of the 4th century or the 21st century. I am motivated to discover the ancient historical truth of christian origins, and my research to date indicates that Christian origins may be a 4th century phenomenom.

While I think the Bible and the Quran are fabrications and products of wars, I do not hate either Christians or Moslems. I would not burn their books and give them JRR Tolkien's "The Hobbit" to read in substitution, although I think that this might be a beneficial thing. I object to these hate claims. Examine your own self for hatred, dont just project it against ideas you do not like or understand.