Tickfast

God is perfect, no? So would god ever do anything wrong? Would god ever have any reason to regret his actions? Like, i dunno, repent His creation of Mankind? Oh, you REALLY need to look up the actual history of the Holy Roman Empire. They 'took over' Rome after 300 AD. Not within a lifetime.

Mageth

Oh, you REALLY need to look up the actual history of the Holy Roman Empire. They 'took over' Rome after 300 AD. Not within a lifetime.

Not to mention the fact that the legends of the early persecution of the Church by Rome are heavily exaggerated.

Heathen Dawn

OK. So what are you going to do about it—cry?

Rational BAC

mon chi chi--------

Many Christians also believe along with the Muslims that salvation is by works-- not faith.

You take St. Paul way too seriously. Read the Gospels. The truth of Christianity is in what Jesus stated, not what Paul stated.

And given a choice, I go for what Jesus stated. Salvation by works is paramount.

It is very evident that Jesus was trying to teach men how to live among themselves in a Christian way. That was the whole reason He came down to Earth---------to teach us practical ways of living together. --------------and by doing that being able to reach salvation in heaven.

CaptainOfOuterSpace

Who says we need a god to have an afterlife?
I'll use your own words: "there is one perfect God, in three persons."
[insert spinning head here].
I await your references.

Ronin

Salvation?

From what or better yet, who?

Your moniker is quite irrational BAC. Immediately noticeable when you say things like "...came down to Earth".

That is just so Dark Ages.

Also, if by heaven, you mean a place of utter joy free from the suffering that we see each moment in the human condition...then why this whole game of misery to begin with?

How long until your monster is satisfied that he has enough sycophants to ease his vain craving?

RTS

You are referring to the biblical verse John 3:16: "For god so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever should believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Probably the most promulgated, publicized and parroted verse of the entire bible.

But if possible, apply some independent, analytical thought here to decipher what this verse actually means.

This verse actually says: 'the only way god could restrain himself from sadistic torture of all of humanity was to vent his anger by killing his only natural son by torturing him with crucification... and anybody who believes in this perverse notion of justice gets to live with him forever in the afterlife.'

HaHaHa... And that's his idea of love? An all powerful being needing a blood sacrifice? HaHaHa... No Thank You... When I pass... if offered this option, I will definitely decline.

Weltall

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply. Mon Chi Chi started a similar thread earlier and never responded after his first post. http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=62586

Muad'Dib

If he cared that much, it shouldn't be too much trouble to drop by and say hello now and then, should it?

Wait, what physical laws do you defy? Can I bring you to my university's lab to test that?

Nobody knows. If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize you don't know either.

Personally, I would prefer not to live life without a billion dollars in the bank. Unfortunately, my whims have very little say in what is in fact real.

Are you talking to someone in particular?

Not sure what you mean by this.

Um, if it's the same thing you wrote before, why wouldn't it be?

What exactly is the logic test?

How many muslims do you know? The few muslims I knew as an undergrad believed nothing of the sort.

That depends on your metric. Not all intuitions of distance are ontologically useful.

Yes, the fetuses inside the Caananite women who were ripped open must have greatly offended God, all right. Kick once too often in the womb and it's the sword for you!

If it's just one infidel, he probably died a long time ago anyway.

I think it's not entirely fair to completely blame the popes (the Crusades did stretch across several papacies, you know), as many of the atrocities were committed by generals acting under their own power. However, I will agree that their motivation was more than a little suspicious.

They teach (correctly) that the Bible is not perfectly preserved from its original documents, and claim (insubstantially) that part of the additions and imperfections are those which describe Jesus claiming to be God.

They don't need to decide, they just worship everyone.

Incidentally, the Hindu faith teaches that everyone will eventually reach their highest form and thereby all creation will reach Nirvana. I'm not a fan of a lot of Hindu teachings, but I have to say that sounds a lot better than an eternal hell.

Ah...have you studied any of it at all?

So I can look in the Bible and find a sketch of the proof that P is not equal to NP?

Nice of you to apply this to Christians and not to other faiths. Very ecumenical of you.

Yeah...Alexander Campbell tried to make this work, but it didn't. Can you do any better?

And you've studied it for years and know many actually Buddhists, yes?

And you've studied it for years and know many actual Taoists, yes?

Having read the Bible (which you have, yes?) you should be familiar with the concept of symbolic language.

<non sequitur> Christianity is not logical because people who make posts of this quality never stay around to defend them.</non sequitur> I look forward to being proved wrong.

Name three, citing references from the Torah itself (in Hebrew).

xxthe_leewitxx

That has to be the weakest argument for Christianity (and religion in general, for that matter) that I've ever heard.

By that reasoning, the person who discovered that fire could be controlled and used for our benefit couldn't have had any lasting affect upon the world, then. What about agricultural advances and the domestication of animals? The person, or more likely people, who invented the plow live on, whether we know their names or not. And the first person who made friends with a wolf has my admiration. I could be misinterpreting 'the greatest of affects upon the world', but these seem to be things that pretty significantly affect our lives, even today. If by 'life without God' you mean life without your Judeo-Christian god (and I can only assume that you do, seeing how you don't seem to believe that any other religion really understands who or what god is), then none of those people lived a life with your god, as they lived before Jesus. Their lives then failed to contain meaning?

If you're truly worried about your life having counted for something, I don't think that religion is the best answer. Instead, work to acquire enough knowledge of science to conquer some of the vast problems that face mankind... or if that's too much for you, show some kindness and love to another person who is in need of such, or teach a child something that they can teach their children, one day. We life finite lives, and as individuals, we usually can only have a finite affect on things. I'm OK with that, though. What good is an afterlife to you, if you don't do anything worthwhile with this life?