dancer_rnb

Well, here is a bible believing Christian to critisize belief in an eternal hell, as opposed to belief in the lake of fire. The guy is a Universalist.:angel:

http://bible-truths.com/

John A. Broussard

Right you are. The hundreds of millions of Chinese used to regularly read Isaiah. To say nothing of the Mayas, Australian Aborigines, ancient Egyptians, Numidians, Laplanders, etc. They knew he was coming.

Your view of history is almost as strange as the religious views you espouse.

However, since you say that you trust that god will judge justly, you are clearly admitting that you have no reason to believe that god will, or that god even exists.

There's no arguing about faith. If you have evidence (other than the bible, which you also accept on faith) then perhaps we can carry on a discussion. Otherwise I can no more say that you are wrong then you can say I'm wrong when I declare that I like rocky-road ice cream.

John A. Broussard

The easiest way to avoid a rational discussion of an issue for which one has no answer is by posts such as the above.

Do you have something substantial to offer to this thread? If so, state it, and we can move on from there.

Clarice O'C

Atheists are experts on hell. There isn't one.

Equinox

mata wrote
Hey, I thought you were a Christian. A Christian should know that the Bible is quite clear that the criteria for going to Hell has nothing to do with what one does (works), but only with whether or not someone is a Christian.

Now, Hitler has said many times that he was a Christian. Who knows if he was honest or not, but claiming he's in Hell is contradicted by the evidence. With Stalin I think you are on firm ground, however. Why not add a few other well known non-Christians?

You could have more safely said "Anne Frank and Gandhi are roasting in Hell as we speak! Anne Frank's mother and Father are there too, along with Thomas Jefferson, Einstein and Mark Twain! In fact, Christians like Jeffry Dahmer and David Koresh are laughing as they watch Anne Frank writhe in agony."

What a twisted view of the world.

mata, do you see this situation as "perfect righteousness and goodness"?

-Equinox

Harumi

Woah!

I had assumed that this thread had died since I didn't get any notices. Guess I was wrong...

So, a lot of things to answer. I can only answer the things I remember off the top of my head, so if I miss anyone, they are welcome to ask me again.

This started during a conversation about a television series we were watching. In this series, there was an Emperor who loved goodness so much that he enacted harsh laws hoping to prevent them. In short, everything, from small crimes like stealing to things that don't seem like crimes at all (staying at home away from work to sit beside an ailing daughter for example) all get the death penalty.

I mentioned that this was very much like a Christian god, the death penalty being equivalent to the Christian god in injustice. My friend knows that I don't believe in god, so I guess he was trying to get me to say that if I do someday see proof in its existence, I'd be willing to worship it. As of right now, even if god were to appear in all its glory, I could not, with a good conscience, worship a being a consider vile and evil.

Come to think of it, the emperor in that story may have been a criticism of the christian god...

This friend of mine is the fine example of why it is useless to argue with a liberal Christian. He believes everything in the OT isn't to be taken literally, and the only thing that can be taken from it is the Ten Commandments.

I wonder how much of the bible he has read though, because if that is the case, why has he not read anything about hell, which from what you people have told me, is full of references and descriptions of it? As one of the posters said, mental gymnastics indeed.

Personally I asked this question looking for ways to argue with him , since I am no expert on the bible. It is certainly not because I have any doubts or worries. I tried reading it once and fell asleep (if God's so perfect, couldn't he have written something more interesting? :Cheeky: ) several times. Must be the devil working its evil on me. :devil1:

At any rate, this has been incredibly helpful. My friends are good people, which is probably why they cannot stomach the idea of me being in hell. I just don't understand why they can't just reject something completely when they only believe 1 or 2 things out of the entire thing. Indoctrination has a great hold I suppose.

Helpmabob

Hi Clarice – I consider sin capable of separating a man from God.

Hi John A Broussard - I have no answer to this, maybe someone else does. Okay, you are better at history than me, but it surprises me that someone would worry more about others (dead ones at that) before considering his own status before God.

Clarice O'C

Another *work* is 'accepting Jesus as savior.' I leave their 'lord' out of what they fully say there because I don't see *any* xians following their 'lord' with the love and compassion that he supposedly taught. Do xians not consider themselves to be 'sinners' as they judge others to be? If not, what do they need a savior for? To say others are going to the hell that they created for those who don't want to think and behave like them is a height of conceit that they are somehow 'special.' The *only* reason xians threaten others to hell is to validate their own beliefs--winning souls to their dogma, convincing nonbelievers, proves to them that they're right which is another way to 'feel good' which is what xianity is all about for xians. Selfish and hateful stuff.

Clarice O'C

I can't be included in this statement because I'm not a man.

John A. Broussard

My worry has nothing to do with the question.

How much history do you have to know to realize that the overwhelming majority of people who have ever lived have never heard about your god?

I shouldn't be too critical, though. You say you don't know how your god deals with such people. That ends the discussion on this point.

Let's move on to hypotheticals.

If these billions are indeed condemned to the eternal flames, how do YOU justify that?

If these billions are saved without knowing about Christ, why is a belief in Christ needed for salvation?

You don't have to know anything about history to deal with those questions.