Harumi

So I was talking to my liberal Christian friends. One is Catholic, the other is Lutheran.

Both know I am an atheist, and both know why I choose to be an atheist.

Neither believe I am going to hell. They understand this is against a commonly held belief, but argue that nothing in scripture states that nonbelievers go to hell. Nor any description that hell even exists.

I find that rather amazing and skeptical. Is what they say true? Any scripture to counter their arguments?

Splarnst

Um, like the whole of the Gospels? Jesus condemns non-believers to hell often.

Chris Weimer

Specifically Matthew's reaping of the harvest metaphor comes to mind. However, Luke appears to be universalistic and Mark deficient.

JGL53

I remember a poll from decades ago that showed about 60 per cent of christians in the U.S. are liberals who don't believe in a hell. Maybe today that would be optimistic.

In any case the so-called fundamentalists are the ones who are reading the bible straight up - a literal hell is taught in the bible. If one can't stomach the idea of hell, then one should find something else to do than just massage christianity to fit personal taste. That's what I did.

But "liberal" christians will continue to interpret the bible as they see fit. Thus, e.g., we have gay christians and women preachers.

Destronicus

Admittedly, I've read maybe 5% of the entire Bible, but I was under the impression that Hell was a later invention of Christian scaremongers. John 3:16 goes "...whosoever believeth in me shall not perish , but have everlasting life. " You will either cease to exist, or go to heaven. It says nothing about hell. Also, there's that one verse that says "the wages of sin is death." Notice it doesn't say, "The wages of sin is an eternity in hell," but death. No torture there.

Chris Weimer

That's a very selected reading there, Destronicus. How about Mt. 5.22, 5.30, 13.24-30, etc...?

Helpmabob

Hi Harumi. No-one on this earth can offer you comfort in this matter - neither Catholic, Lutheran, atheist, star-gazer, fortune-teller or politician.

Comfort can be found in God alone. If you persist in rejecting God's forgiveness how will you withstand His presence? This is Hell - to have the knowledge that a glorious God exists and know that you have chosen your own seperatedness from Him.

Atheos

Well said, Helpmabob! If people everywhere would accept the forgiveness of Allah the world would be a much better place, and every man would have an opportunity to enjoy eternal bliss with 72 virgins. Did you come to know Allah by birth or were you taught by a believer?

-Atheos

Benni72

In Matthew 25, it is those who do not take care of their neighbours, rather than nonbelievers, who get condemned. However, the Longer Ending of Mark (Mk. 16:16) does have an accent on nonbelief.

JEST2ASK

Help-Ma-Bob :wave: is right all those who do not accept JC as lord are doomed, it matters not if it is active or passive unbelief .. no difference ... moral , amoral, immoral ... no differences in the sort of life one leads .. only if at the last instant before death , you have a sincre belief in JC. ( One thing though there are many verses that indicate we do not choose our fate it is predestined *)

The Carrot and the Stick approach ... neither outcome do I find to have much power over my life .. not to derail this thread which is only about what the bible says regarding the treatment of non-believers in the afterlife... not if some X-tians accept A, B or C by picking and choosing scripture ... *like so many major points in the bible conflicting messages abound. Anyway just my subjective input.