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Old 12-15-2008, 08:43 AM   #1
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Default Considering HJ/MJ through the lens of Jewish History

Explaining the Myth, Legend or Possibility of a Historical Jesus through the Lens of Jewish History
b.g.b. aka LogicandReason

From the middle of the 2nd century BCE until the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 CE, including the rule and death of Herod the Great, this epoch of the Jewish Epic records great suffering, derision between competing factions, and the conditions necessary to incubate a new religion. Judging by the amount of space Josephus dedicated to writing on this period, it might be considered the most causal to both Jews and Western history. Many who have studied and written about this period will try to frame it as a struggle between the Jews and external Imperial forces – but the strife was internecine. Two competing cultures, Greek and religious Jews were competing for the Hebrews. This competition created a synchronization of both – early Christianity.

We first read about this new belief system in letters from an itinerant sophist identified as Paul (and others who write in his name). We have no indication how long ‘Christians’ existed before they converted the letter writer. The intentional object of the Christian faith, Jesus, cannot be constructed from Paul’s epistles in terms of the later written Gospel history. Why? Because Paul’s cosmic (non-earthly) Lord Jesus Christ is a Greek (Hellenistic) and not a Jewish concept. This Son of Man is fashioned from the mold of the dying/rising savior gods of Greek, Syrian, and Egyptian origin. Christians cannot construct an earthly/historical Jesus from all that was written before the Gospels – he might never have existed.

It is very possible that a man did exist whom the writer we call Mark projected a history on – but did this man perform miracles, raise the dead or reappear after his own death (which is never referenced in the original Gospel of Mark…yes, Chapter 16:9-20 is added later)? If he did, history fails to record such deeds. We can consider the Bible history, as long as we are willing to do the same for the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, and other polemical ‘Holy Books.’ The intentional object Jesus may very well be a legend, like William Tell. Notice that if you read the Gospels in the order they are written (Mark, Matthew, Luke, John), as with any legend, the story grows with each telling. If you, the reader, are convinced that Jesus was an earthly man and the Gospels tell his story then try this exercise: construct a harmonized version of Jesus’ appearances on earth after his resurrection – it’s not possible. The stories contradict. So what or where is the truth in all of this?

When Christians seek to divine an earthly man named Jesus from the polemics of the New Testament Gospels and Acts, they are attempting to view a distant star through a telescope missing its lens. We cannot evaluate early Christian development without applying Jewish history, culture and religious belief – Christianity is a sectarian development of Judaism, not a fulfillment, as claimed. A novice perusal of these data renders several conclusions: 1) Jewish Messianic hope never foretells a Son of God, rather predicts an earthly Messiah (sent from God) who will deliver Israel from foreign political domination (as in the time of King David), 2) a dying/rising savior is unknown to Jewish thought, it is Greek dualism, 3) apocalyptic eschatology in the Hebrew scriptures appear when ‘God’s Chosen People’ are being invaded and enslaved, and 4) the idea of a resurrection (dating back to perhaps the oldest Jewish writing of Job, Chapters 14 and 19) is a Hebrew concept of all the dead rising on ‘The Day of the Lord,’ not a rising savior. It takes Christian exegesis and desire to ‘reveal’ the Jewish Messiah in a man named Jesus. Did Christianity begin with a birth in Bethlehem during the time of Herod the Great (who died in 4 B.C.E.)?

The first common error in scholarship, when tracing back early church history and the historicity of Jesus, is to start the story in the early 1st century C.E. in Galilee and Jerusalem – Christianity’s beginnings are earlier and a product of Hellenized Jews living in the Diaspora. The timing of Jesus’ earthly life (whether a truth, legend or historicized myth) was not the result of God’s capricious nature or divine plan, rather it was the direct result of historical crisis the Jews were experiencing themselves from the middle of the 2nd century B.C.E. until the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 C.E. I will attempt here to construct the critical pieces of this history that I believe contributed to the genesis of today’s church.
Posit 1: Today’s church is the direct result of Roman Emperor Constantine’s conversion in the 4th century C.E. and its access to complete, unrivaled control and domination. This is the most important historical factor in Christianity’s success as a meme. Based on Christianity’s conflicting truth claims at the beginning of the 2nd century CE (just read Ignatius’ Against Heresies (the first place we find the Gospel’s authors named), it is unlikely the church would have survived in its current position in history, except for the ability of Constantine to utterly destroy competing Christian and pagan sects. That complete domination would not be challenged until the 16th century Reformation began by Martin Luther. Since that time, science, medicine, philosophy and technology have flourished. The Christianity known to us today is the product of that 4th century effort and is not based on events of the early 1st century.

Posit 2: Christian roots (followers of a Christ/Dying and Rising Savior/Messiah, not an earthly Jesus) begin as early as the middle 2nd century B.C.E. when conflict broke out between the ruler of the Seleucid Empire (Antiochus Epiphanes/ 216-164 B.C.E.) and the religious (mainly Hasidic) Jews of Palestine. It began in places like Alexandria, Ephesus, and Rome versus Jerusalem. It began as a myth about God sending his son to earth to die and rise again, a Jewish Messiah synchronism with the other Hellenized myths of Isis, Osiris, Attis, Mithra and Dionysus. It mutated from Essene Judaism. The name ‘Yeshua’ (Jesus/God Saves) is common and associated with this dying/rising savior (the fact that we use its Greek form, Jesus, suggest the Hellenistic influence as well as the languages international use during this period). The Christian sect is a reflection of the great strife of the Hebrews of this period – between religious and Hellenized Jews and between the Jews as a whole and the Seleucids.

History notes that Antiochus was supported by many of the Hellenized Jews of the Diaspora (in Syria particularly) and the Seleucid ruler was approached by some of those non-religious Jews to settle matters in Judea. Josephus, in Book 12, Chapter 5 of The Antiquities of the Jews, gives us a rendering of the supposed ‘prophesy’ of Daniel (the Book of Daniel is actually written around 150 BCE) and reveals that this conflict began as an argument about the position of the Jewish High Priest between non-religious Jews that backed Menelaus (who very much favored breaking with Judaism and its archaic laws…maybe the Sam Harris of his day) and orthodox Jews who backed Jesus (yes, you are reading this correctly - Jesus is a very common name in this time period and this Jesus was the brother of the High Priest Onias who had recently died). Jesus’ supporters forced Menelaus and his followers to flee Jerusalem. Menelaus went to Antiochus for help and subsequently the Syrian King invaded Jerusalem after concluding his war against Egypt. The name of this religious High Priest Jesus could have easily been associated with the Jewish religious struggle against Hellenism.

Antiochus took Jerusalem by treachery, without a fight. In dire need of money after the recent war, the ruler infuriated righteous Jews by emptying the Temple riches. In further desecration to religious Jews, he sacrificed swine on the holy alter while he forbid the Jews to sacrifice in the Temple. You can read about this history in Daniel 7…both Jews and Christians claim this was prophesied (but like all prophesy, it was written after the events, not before). Attempting to assimilate the Jews into Hellenism, Antiochus outlawed the practice of Judaism, circumcision, and forced the Jews to build temples to and worship pagan idols. People who circumcised their sons were put to death. The religious Jews revolted. Daniel’s prophesy with its cosmic eschatology form a new concept in Jewish thought that will end up in a book called ‘The Revelation.’

At this time, approximately 167, an amazing Jewish priest named Mattathias and his brave sons, John, Simon, Judas, Eleazar, and Jonathan (many of these names are common in later New Testament stories) started an insurrection against Antiochus in the countryside of the Levant (Modin). Sacrificing their lives, the Maccabees (dramatically outnumbered and out-equipped) ousted the Seleucid armies and established the first Jewish kingdom since the time of Kings Saul, David and Solomon eight hundred years previous. I wonder why the Jews of that day did not perceive Judas Maccabee as the Messiah (one can easily understand why the polemicist of the late 1st century wrote a man named Judas into the ‘Passion’ story as the villain). The celebration of Chanukah in part commemorates these events. It is my supposition that at this same time period the circumstance described above incubated the resurrection ideas, eschatological immediacy, and the desire to find refuge from harsh living conditions that formed the first Christian communities in the Diaspora. They were most likely Essenes that developed further Hellenistic dualism. These are the people who converted the Apostle Paul.

Posit 3: Herod the Great pushed the Jews over the edge and set the stage for a series of revolts with his great building projects in Palestine that were accomplished on the backs and out of the wallets of the Jews. This furthered the rhetoric of apocalypse and Messianic expectation in non-Pharisee and non-Sadducee groups. The Jews, especially those in Jerusalem, lived in no greater period of turmoil than they did during the rule of Herod. His thrown was a defilement of their culture. Herod, and the Sadducees who ran the Temple, were considered to be Roman collaborators (and they were).

Antipater’s son, who was installed by Caesar, was Idumaean, not Jewish. He married and murdered the last of the Hasmoneans (Mariamne – a tragic love story worth exploring) along with her Grandfather Hyrcanus and her brother (he wanted no competitor from the Hasmonean linage). He then killed his sons by Mariamne. Israel was separated from the royal linage and becoming like the pagans.

Herod’s long reign in Judea, from 47 BCE until 4 BCE (he died at age 70) was a period of great tribulation for the common man and religious Jew alike. Herod becomes a historical anchor in the Jesus story (the undisputed anchors in my opinion are Herod, John-the-Baptizer, and Pontius Pilate) as a result of his tumultuous rule and the after effects following his death, such as the rebellion in Galilee in 6 CE by Judas of Gamala (2000 Galileans were crucified as a result). I posit that groups, like the early Christians, cross-pollinated political and religious ideas, creating the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ illusions to compensate for political domination, hunger, high taxation, lack of personal and family security, and to create a sense of hope. Jesus became part of this belief system near the end of the 1st century CE (whether or not a historical person.)

Posit 4: Pontius Pilate becomes the last anchor used in the Historical Jesus story because of the great suffering he inflicted upon the Jews after being assigned as the Procurator of Judea. Josephus records for us in Book 18, Chapter 3 of The Antiquities of the Jews that Pilate’s first act of degradation towards the Jews and their religion happens when he moves his troops from Caesarea to Jerusalem that initial winter. Josephus says the governor went to Jerusalem with the intent to abolish Jewish law. In defiance of Jewish proscriptions against ‘images,’ Pilate had the effigy of Caesar placed upon the ensigns and set them about the city of Jerusalem at night. In the morning there was a terrible uproar. Pilate addressed the Jews, surrounded by armed troops, and threatened to punish those who were speaking against the images of Caesar. When the Jews showed a willingness to die over the issue, Pilate recanted. This is but the opening act of a bloody and cruel despotic reign, which saw the summary executions (crucifixions) of thousands of religious Jews. It is no wonder that Pilate’s era was selected as the backdrop for the earthly Jesus story.

Thus my reflection of the scholarship of many from the Enlightenment until today – the Jesus story, rather the reflection of a man who lived, legend, or a myth historicized, is the product of the political struggles and survival strife of the Jews during the period between the 2nd century BCE and the beginning of the 2nd century CE. It’s common message of the coming ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ for the most part was Humanistic and socially radical. It’s survival and later domination is the result of 4th century history as opposed to its truth claims. In my opinion, we will never prove or disprove the Historical Jesus controversy – for those who believe it is a matter of faith.

References:
The New Testament
The Wars of the Jews, The Antiquities of the Jews – Josephus
The Quest of the Historical Jesus – Albert Schweitzer
Who Wrote the New Testament? – Burton Mack
Misquoting Jesus – Bart Ehrman
The Jesus Puzzle – Earl Doherty *my favorite*
Life of Jesus – David F. Strauss
Constantine’s Sword – James Carroll
A History of the Jews – Paul Johnson
The Gnostic Paul – Elaine Pagles
For Christian apologist I recommend:
Lee Strobles, Josh McDowell, and Gary Habermas
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:59 PM   #2
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Posit 1: Today’s church is the direct result of Roman Emperor Constantine’s conversion in the 4th century C.E. and its access to complete, unrivaled control and domination. This is the most important historical factor in Christianity’s success as a meme. Based on Christianity’s conflicting truth claims at the beginning of the 2nd century CE (just read Ignatius’ Against Heresies (the first place we find the Gospel’s authors named), it is unlikely the church would have survived in its current position in history, except for the ability of Constantine to utterly destroy competing Christian and pagan sects.
You possibly mean Irenaeus not Ignatius

Andrew Criddle
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:05 PM   #3
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Thus my reflection of the scholarship of many from the Enlightenment until today – the Jesus story, rather the reflection of a man who lived, legend, or a myth historicized, is the product of the political struggles and survival strife of the Jews during the period between the 2nd century BCE and the beginning of the 2nd century CE. It’s common message of the coming ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ for the most part was Humanistic and socially radical. It’s survival and later domination is the result of 4th century history as opposed to its truth claims. In my opinion, we will never prove or disprove the Historical Jesus controversy – for those who believe it is a matter of faith.
But, this can hardly be true.

Jesus believers were fed propaganda and lies about a character called Jesus. These believers were operating in secret and were prosecuted and killed. They were characterised as cannibals and were highly superstitious. These believers would forged and manipulate the writings of other believers and call one another devils. Just read the very first chapter of "Against Marcion" by Tertullian and you will see that there was something radically wrong with Jesus believers.

And there is no credible source that can show Jesus was a Jew or that any Jew saw Jesus, spoke to him or could identify him.

Why would a Jew claim he could save Jews from their sins while the Jewish Temple was still intact when this very Jew did not obey the Sabbath.

What is "Humanistic" about Jesus of the NT? The transfiguration, the resurrection, the ascension, what?

I think it was in the 4th century that Julian claimed the Galileans, Jesus and his disciples, were a monstrous lie. What is radical or humanistic about a monstrous lie?
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Old 12-15-2008, 10:56 PM   #4
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synchronization of both – early Christianity.
You mean a syncretization of both - ...
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Old 12-16-2008, 08:36 AM   #5
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Posit 2: Christian roots (followers of a Christ/Dying and Rising Savior/Messiah, not an earthly Jesus) begin as early as the middle 2nd century B.C.E. when conflict broke out between the ruler of the Seleucid Empire (Antiochus Epiphanes/ 216-164 B.C.E.) and the religious (mainly Hasidic) Jews of Palestine. It began in places like Alexandria, Ephesus, and Rome versus Jerusalem. It began as a myth about God sending his son to earth to die and rise again, a Jewish Messiah synchronism with the other Hellenized myths of Isis, Osiris, Attis, Mithra and Dionysus. It mutated from Essene Judaism. The name ‘Yeshua’ (Jesus/God Saves) is common and associated with this dying/rising savior (the fact that we use its Greek form, Jesus, suggest the Hellenistic influence as well as the languages international use during this period). The Christian sect is a reflection of the great strife of the Hebrews of this period – between religious and Hellenized Jews and between the Jews as a whole and the Seleucids.

History notes that Antiochus was supported by many of the Hellenized Jews of the Diaspora (in Syria particularly) and the Seleucid ruler was approached by some of those non-religious Jews to settle matters in Judea. Josephus, in Book 12, Chapter 5 of The Antiquities of the Jews, gives us a rendering of the supposed ‘prophesy’ of Daniel (the Book of Daniel is actually written around 150 BCE) and reveals that this conflict began as an argument about the position of the Jewish High Priest between non-religious Jews that backed Menelaus (who very much favored breaking with Judaism and its archaic laws…maybe the Sam Harris of his day) and orthodox Jews who backed Jesus (yes, you are reading this correctly - Jesus is a very common name in this time period and this Jesus was the brother of the High Priest Onias who had recently died). Jesus’ supporters forced Menelaus and his followers to flee Jerusalem. Menelaus went to Antiochus for help and subsequently the Syrian King invaded Jerusalem after concluding his war against Egypt. The name of this religious High Priest Jesus could have easily been associated with the Jewish religious struggle against Hellenism.

Antiochus took Jerusalem by treachery, without a fight. In dire need of money after the recent war, the ruler infuriated righteous Jews by emptying the Temple riches. In further desecration to religious Jews, he sacrificed swine on the holy alter while he forbid the Jews to sacrifice in the Temple. You can read about this history in Daniel 7…both Jews and Christians claim this was prophesied (but like all prophesy, it was written after the events, not before). Attempting to assimilate the Jews into Hellenism, Antiochus outlawed the practice of Judaism, circumcision, and forced the Jews to build temples to and worship pagan idols. People who circumcised their sons were put to death. The religious Jews revolted. Daniel’s prophesy with its cosmic eschatology form a new concept in Jewish thought that will end up in a book called ‘The Revelation.’

At this time, approximately 167, an amazing Jewish priest named Mattathias and his brave sons, John, Simon, Judas, Eleazar, and Jonathan (many of these names are common in later New Testament stories) started an insurrection against Antiochus in the countryside of the Levant (Modin). Sacrificing their lives, the Maccabees (dramatically outnumbered and out-equipped) ousted the Seleucid armies and established the first Jewish kingdom since the time of Kings Saul, David and Solomon eight hundred years previous. I wonder why the Jews of that day did not perceive Judas Maccabee as the Messiah (one can easily understand why the polemicist of the late 1st century wrote a man named Judas into the ‘Passion’ story as the villain). The celebration of Chanukah in part commemorates these events. It is my supposition that at this same time period the circumstance described above incubated the resurrection ideas, eschatological immediacy, and the desire to find refuge from harsh living conditions that formed the first Christian communities in the Diaspora. They were most likely Essenes that developed further Hellenistic dualism. These are the people who converted the Apostle Paul.
The Hasmoneans enforced conversion to Judaism on conquered subjects, with the death the penalty for refusal.

During the reign of Alexander Janneus there was civil war between the court and dissenting Pharisees, many of whom were crucified.

I think the Essenes and others had lost all confidence in the political and religious leadership in Jerusalem. The schizoid nature of Hasmonean rule probably inspired disillusion and escapism through apocalypticism. The rise of the Zealots against Rome was the terminal expression of populist desperation.

The gospel of Mark tells us that Joshua appeared at the Jordan. Surely this is a plain reference to hopes for national regeneration like that of the founder Moses. But was "the land of milk and honey" of this world or the next?
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:06 AM   #6
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Posit 1: Today’s church is the direct result of Roman Emperor Constantine’s conversion in the 4th century C.E. and its access to complete, unrivaled control and domination. This is the most important historical factor in Christianity’s success as a meme. Based on Christianity’s conflicting truth claims at the beginning of the 2nd century CE (just read Ignatius’ Against Heresies (the first place we find the Gospel’s authors named), it is unlikely the church would have survived in its current position in history, except for the ability of Constantine to utterly destroy competing Christian and pagan sects.
You possibly mean Irenaeus not Ignatius

Andrew Criddle
Yes...thanks
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:08 AM   #7
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synchronization of both – early Christianity.
You mean a syncretization of both - ...
My mistake...thanks
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:30 AM   #8
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Thus my reflection of the scholarship of many from the Enlightenment until today – the Jesus story, rather the reflection of a man who lived, legend, or a myth historicized, is the product of the political struggles and survival strife of the Jews during the period between the 2nd century BCE and the beginning of the 2nd century CE. It’s common message of the coming ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ for the most part was Humanistic and socially radical. It’s survival and later domination is the result of 4th century history as opposed to its truth claims. In my opinion, we will never prove or disprove the Historical Jesus controversy – for those who believe it is a matter of faith.
But, this can hardly be true.

Jesus believers were fed propaganda and lies about a character called Jesus.
Good observation but it needs a time period to qualify which Christians you are referencing.

maybe it is better to state that the 'Kingdom of Heaven' idea developed as an offshoot of Essene thinking from the time period referenced above and the character of 'Jesus' became the intentional object of that concept.

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These believers were operating in secret and were prosecuted and killed. They were characterised as cannibals and were highly superstitious. These believers would forged and manipulate the writings of other believers and call one another devils. Just read the very first chapter of "Against Marcion" by Tertullian and you will see that there was something radically wrong with Jesus believers.
Some of them...especially those who were trying to wrest power. Would you agree that the majority were just buying a fantasy as an escape from a very harsh life?

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And there is no credible source that can show Jesus was a Jew or that any Jew saw Jesus, spoke to him or could identify him.
I agree. I there is no evidence that anyone Jewish lived that also fits the descriptions and behaviors of the Jesus described in the Gospels. Like Philo, I think a group of Diaspora Jews married some of the recently developing eschatology with Greek dualism and the 'Kingdom of Heaven' believers were incubated. The idea and name of Jesus come later...as I said in previous posts, the letter writer may have developed much of the kerygma.

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Why would a Jew claim he could save Jews from their sins while the Jewish Temple was still intact when this very Jew did not obey the Sabbath.
Excellent point! The 'sin' thing is probably Paul's invention...or one of the letter writers.

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What is "Humanistic" about Jesus of the NT? The transfiguration, the resurrection, the ascension, what?
The parts of Matthew 5 that Christians forget to model. Sayings such as: love your enemy, bless those who curse you, and do unto others what you would want done unto yourself. Nothing that didn't come out of the mouth of Hillel the elder or others before the writing of Matthew. But Christianity is such the mix of other influences of that day, the Cynics and the Stoics to name a couple.

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I think it was in the 4th century that Julian claimed the Galileans, Jesus and his disciples, were a monstrous lie. What is radical or humanistic about a monstrous lie?
He probably judged this from Constantine's butchery and love of Jesus..how long did Julian live and reign?

The 'Kingdom of Heaven's' communal sharing of resources and other Marxist qualities made it quite radical in its thinking and perhaps some behaviors. But I will admit, many of the ascetic privations were no different than those of the Stoics.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:26 PM   #9
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The 'Kingdom of Heaven's' communal sharing of resources and other Marxist qualities made it quite radical in its thinking and perhaps some behaviors. But I will admit, many of the ascetic privations were no different than those of the Stoics.
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They dined together,
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar...pythagorus.htm
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:57 PM   #10
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Though a generally interesting thesis, I think you may have overlooked a more fundamental reason Jesus was projected to 30 CE, which is, it's exactly 40 years prior to the fall of the temple. This was symbolic, as it represented the 40 years 'in the desert' for Christianity, a period of trial to test them before they were created as God's (new) chosen people.

Did Josephus start this mess by linking his own writings to the fulfillment of the prophecies of Daniel? Did he have a particular triumphant messiah in mind when he did that?
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