Sarpedon

Remember the example I gave...dude didn't kill himself, but was considered a suicide anyway...You may say this is Dante and not the bible, but Dante's literature has been more influential on christian culture than the bible has, and it was considered to be completely in accord with christian thinking of the time.

Gawen

Couldn't someone think that the Jews did the Kevorkian thing? Assisted suicide? Afterall, Jesus (if there ever was such a person) knew he would die. Instead of plunging a gladius through his own heart, which would have been the better dramatics and more honourable thing, he let the nasty evil Jews do God's (if there really is one) bidding. (remember, the Romans saw Jesus as innocent of Roman law)

Magus55

Where the heck did you get that idea? The Christian Bible has had less influence that a random author writing a fictional book? Evidence?

AJ113

HA HA HA HA
That's rich, Magus. You asking for evidence.
'scuse me while I go and dry my eyes....

livius drusus

A comparative study of Dante's and the Bible's influences on Christianity would be an interesting discussion indeed. In another thread, of course. The needling Magus segment, otoh, is inappropriate anywhere.

On the actual topic of the thread, I think Karen M makes a very useful distinction based on intent. This is a familiar legal differentiation applied to a person who kills someone else: it's the difference between justifiable homicide and 1st degree murder. If killing oneself to save the life of a friend would not be considered suicide, then surely allowing oneself to be killed to save the eternal life of everyone could not be judged as suicide either.

The issue of whether Jesus' death actually saved souls is irrelevant. His intent is the applicable standard.

Starboy

If Jesus was god then he didn't die so talking of his death is hardly relevant. If Jesus was a regular person then the issue of suicide is still problematic since he was obviously deranged.

Starboy

Amos

Yes but only to the Jesus identity and not to the Christ identity. Don't forget that Jesus had a dual nature and only one of them had to die to set the God identity free and the God identity was set free under the name of Bar-abbas which means "son of man" and that is exactly what the second identity of Jesus was called.

To make this more obvious his apostles had forsaken him and they were his eidetic images later to be re-called into the upper room. etc.

livius drusus

If he was a regular person then Biblical descriptions of his actions or words can hardly be taken at face value and therefore none of the things you consider signs of derangement can be assumed to be true.

There are any number of other possibilities requiring neither insanity nor suicide: a popular preacher gets involved with political zealots, one of whom arranges his execution to save his skin, exaggerating Jesus' importance to distract Roman attention from the revolutionary cell, just to name one.

Sure, it's a bit John LeCarre, but it's perfectly plausible.

Magus55

Do you understand the difference between being God, and being human? One can die, the other can't. Take a guess in which fits in which category, and which part of Jesus actually died.

Roland98

I take it you're unfamiliar with "suicide by cop?"