iFeel

Let's look at the `givens` in the bible.

1. God is all knowing.

That's really all we need for this one.

Considering that, couldn't Jesus visit to earth and subsequent death be considered suicide ?

Let's say I'm gay.

Let's also say I'm standing outside of the NRA chapter of 'we wish we could find us some gays for target practice` anual meeting.

If I walk through that door I (to a certain degree) will be commiting suicide.

It will still be `murder` but I've chosen to engage in an activity that will undoubtly lead to my death.

And that's where the all knowing part causes a problem.

God knew.

Don't most Christians say suicide is a sin (I dont know if that has biblical basis) ?

Could this be a documented sin of Jesus ?

I couldn't ask this anywhere else; I'm sure you understand

Sarpedon

Oh I don't know about that...Does everyone who goes into battle against hopeless odds over a feeling of duty commit suicide? That would be a shame...

On the other hand, in the Inferno, Dante encounters a man who died after charging into the midst of his foes and being killed by them. He was transformed into a bush and put along with the other suicides, so you may have a point...

iFeel

There is a difference between `bad odds` and knowing your going to die.

Toto

An interesting question, but since it does not relate to the Bible or to History, I think it might get more responses in GRD

Magus55

No, Jesus did not committ suicide. Suicide requires one physically ending their own life. Romans killed Jesus, and therefore it does not equal suicide.

What does knowing you are gonna die have to do with suicide? You know you will die eventually. Does that mean that when you actually do, the ME will declare your death a suicide?

iFeel

This is obvious not what I said. I'm talking about when a person puts them self in a position where death is certain.

For example ;

A drunk white beligerant man looking for a fight chooses to walk into the weapons distro meeting of the Black Panthers.

Still murder but hey - he was asking for it.

Or for a REAL LIFE example take criminals who do a `suicide by Cop`.

They know that if they pull out a gun and point the police without a doubt will shoot them.

They know there is NO WAY they are about to outgun 2,5 or 15 cops on the scene.

He was still killed by another person yet it was suicide.

Magus55

Jesus didn't put himself in a situation where death was certain. He preached the truth, and turned against the blasphemy in the Roman Empire. Jesus even asked God the Father if there was another way. Its quite clear Jesus had no desire to die.

winstonjen

Yes he did. He knew he was going to be cruxified, and yet did nothing.

Doesn't change the nature of his act - which was to procure his death.

Then he could have leapt off the cross.

Karen M

Playing devil's advocate here...

I agree that he knew he was going to die and he essentially walked into a situation that would make him die. However, I do not believe this can truely be counted as a "suicide" in the sense that is punished in the Bible. There are two different definitions of "suicide:"

One definition just reqiures you to kill yourself, and I suppose this would qualify Jesus' death as a suicide by this defintion. It is also the defintion used for "suicide bombers" in extreme cases of Islam. This, however, is not the translation that was intended when interpreting suicide as a sin.

The other definition requires not only that you kill yourself, but that you kill yourself for the specific purpose of ending your life (as in you have no other reasons or causes of doing so). Jesus may have died because of his actions, but his goal was not to kill himself, it was to spread his point of view.

iFeel

You forgot about that part where God is `all knowing`.

iFeel