neilgodfrey

Paul’s lack of interest in the physical life of Jesus is often explained as a consequence of 2 Corinthians 5:16 “Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Chrsit according to the flesh, yet now we know him thus no longer.”

Fair enough, let’s accept that. But then what does that say about Paul himself?

One might think after reading 2 Cor. 5:16 that his focus is always on Christ in heaven and that one’s earthly existence is not worth thinking about, let alone study.

But not so. Paul was clearly interested in using his own life in the flesh as a model of the life of Christ for his readers. Philippians 1:20 “So now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life of by death”. He is keen to talk about how his own life in the flesh shares in the “fellowship of Christ’s sufferings” (Phil.3:8-10).

Paul will not hesitate to boast about his life in the flesh when it comes to proving his authority over his churches (2 Cor.11:22-33) but cannot find anything he must have heard about the life or teachings of Christ to persuade his readers to keep the faith.

So Paul thinks his own life demonstrates Christ more effectively than Christ’s life itself ever did for the benefit of his readers?

Neil Godfrey
http://vridar.wordpress.com

Clivedurdle

I can't remember the texts, but are not "God with us" type texts very important here?

Maybe xianity is actually based on an idea of "ye are the temple of the holy spirit" - ie god living in humans. The story of Mary becoming pregnant and giving birth to Jesus is thus a type, an explanation of the result of the joining of god and man. The gospel stories are magical alchemic ritualistic shadows on earth reflecting the true platonic reality in heaven of the sacrifice.

Paul's experience was more important - he had seen the light and was spreading trhe gospel that everyone can have god living in them - all that was needed was some ritual and incantations.

Clivedurdle

What if Paul literally means he had known Christ according to the flesh - ie Christ was living in him? There had been some transformation - an earlier stage when xians first know Christ, a later stage when they became one, a new creation? This in fact fits with how churches were built.

aa5874

2 Corinthians 11:23-28, 'Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
In wearinees and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
Besides those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

2Chorinthians 11:31, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed forever more, knoweth that I lie not.


Those passages go beyond boasting, they appear to be superhuman. I find it very difficult to believe that a person, without the assitance of an external supernatural being, could endure such suffering. Paul is fiction.

neilgodfrey

This reminds me of reading in another thread not long ago a reference to a work arguing that the life of Jesus in the canonical gospels was based on Paul's life. I cannot recall the thread or the name of the author.

Does anyone have more info on that work?

(Paul does make it clear that his own life in the flesh is a model of Christ's life, without ever a hint of anything in that life of Christ. So it is at least theoretically cogent to imagine the first life of Jesus was modelled on Paul. This sounds like Vork's specialist area.)



Thanks
Neil Godfrey
http://vridar.wordpress.com

Peter Kirby

I believe an Eastern Orthodox scholar put forward the theory.

--
Peter Kirby

mountainman

ROME, 312-317, Constantine called for many
gospels but only a few were chosen.



Pete

Steven Carr

All this persecution was prophesied by Jesus. I wonder why Paul never points that out.

Clivedurdle

More interesting numbers! What might the symbolic meaning of 40 save one repeated five times be? (39 is three times thirteen!).

I would be very suspicious about what we are looking at here!

Clivedurdle

Any references?

If we are looking at very carefully constructed alchemic pythagorean magical religious stories, how do we tell anything about who when and where they were written?