dog-on

I am unsure about this one. Is there any discussion of Demonic possession in the OT? If not, which are the oldest stories, extant, where this occurs?

John Kesler

First, here are two threads which you may be interested in since they concern demons:

To answer your question, there is nothing in the OT about demon possession, and demons in general receive little mention. King Saul was tormented by "an evil spirit from Yahweh" (1 Samuel 16, 19)--the closest one gets to "demon possession." During the intertestimental period is when a more developed demonology arose, as evidenced in books like Enoch and Jubilees. See for example 1 Enoch 15:8-12:

dog-on

Makes Mark all the more of an interesting read. Doesn't it?

Solo

It does looks like that the Judaic tradition does not know demons as autonomous agents of malevolence until influence of Hellenism. The OT however knows "spirit of God" which enters individuals (or is poured into them) that can, on occasion, be evil. Two other examples of that, other than the torments of Saul, would be Yahweh's famous attempt on Moses life (Ex 4:24), and the threat to king Hezekiah, made via Isaiah in 2 Kings 19:7 (Behold I will put a spirit in him , so that he shall hear a rumour and return to his own land, and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land).

In the dualist model, the OT case of possession would be Job. Satan "incites" Job against God, without success, and so the Lord, confident that Satan cannot break the man's faith, gives Job to his care. (Job 2:6: The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."). The afflictions of Job are symbolically rendered, but that his torment is of psychic origin needs no special pleading I believe: Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure Jb 3:21-22.

Jiri

BALDUCCI

Christianity is full of demonic possession...it is by no means just an old testament or post-hellenic judiac belief

braces_for_impact

Wasn't Solomon supposedly really good at controlling demons; had a magic ring and all that?

BALDUCCI

Yes, just like the Green Lantern. Much of the bible and christianity is a comic book

John Kesler

Where does this verse say anything about the "spirit of God" entering, or being poured on, anyone?

I think it's a stretch to call Satan's afflictions of Job "possession," and the Satan character acts as a prosecuting attorney rather than as an agent hostile to Yahweh--i.e. the "dualist model" of good versus evil is not yet present. With the possible exception of 1 Chronicles 21, the OT Satan acts in accord with Yahweh's will. Satan as a malevalent being hostile to Yahweh emerges later.

BALDUCCI

I always read this as Satan being a demi-god, in this instance carrying out Yahweh's instructions (as he did in the temptation of Christ)....and the traditions of Satan rebelling against Yahweh (and the creation of the Christian devil) was a later graft. Isnt this what Pagels has shown ? Its years since I read her treatise on the origins of the devil, and maybe someone can update me

Solo

It's just a different locution: "Yahweh met him".

Is it a stretch ? He is in your hands, the Lord says. Job's Satan-induced melancholy might have been allegorized but the nature of Job's predicament was I think clear. In the pseudepigraphal Testament of Job he actually had his sanity checked (and passed, to distinguish between existential distress and insanity).

As to the true "dualism", I believe it is a complicated matter. Paul prays to the Lord to make Satan stop harrassing him (and it is the Lord and not Satan who refuses), which naturally raises the question whether there ever was a wholly independent Satan in Judaism.

Jiri