jgibson000

Is "spirit of inspiration" really the (let alone the only) "old Jewish meaning" of PNEUMA? And is "spirit of inspiration", if not a redundancy, really a meaningful concept? Do we actually find the OT (or the Rabbis) speaking of the thoughts of artists and philosophers and mystics, let alone artists, philosophers, and mystics themselves being "driven" (to create?) by "PNEUMA? Does the OT even know of such persons?

JG

Mageth

I start having problems with the "animated by a spirit" part. Are we talking here about some, well, external, extant "spirit" that possesses and animates people? I don't recognize a "spirit" in that sense.

In a more mundane sense, I can accept the sense of a "spirit of inspiration" that at least some of us seem to possess quite naturally in various degrees (as an emergent property of our existence, not as an external, possessing spirit).

I'm not sure I'm coming across quite well in that. Bottom line is, I think of "spirit" in a quite human and natural sense, certainly not in any numinous or supernatural sense.

No Robots

I agree on all points. So let me ask: don't you think it a shame that a man like Eckhart is forced to abjure his sense of inspiration, or that a man like Christ is murdered because of his refusal to abjure the same?

jgibson000

Is that why Jesus was executed??? For his "sense of inspiration"?

JG

Mageth

No one should be forced to abjure their sense of inspiration, nor should anyone be murdered because of his refusal to abjure the same.

Easy question, easy answer. But for some reason, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop...

In any case, we seem to be wandering away from the topic of the OP quite a bit here, what with the talk of "spirits of inspiration" and how we can agree it's wrong to suppress or murder people who express novel or interesting ideas therefrom.

No Robots

Yes. His mystical self-identification with the Father was judged blasphemy, as it was in the case of Eckhart.

IndigoDad

I am so embarrassed. I used to find this answer "deep."

Mageth

I did as well. Now I read something like that and think, "What the fuck-all did I have to do with it?"

And the only reason I might have a "lack of urgency" to "pin" Jesus' death on anyone is that I really don't care who actually killed the guy (beyond perhaps an interest in historical accuracy). They're long dead anyway, and so there's nothing that could be done to them, nor should any retribution be made on any of their descendants.

It's certainly not because I feel any sort of guilt associated with the death of some first-century resident of an obscure Mediterranian state under control of the Roman Empire.

jgibson000

Where do we find "self identification" (let alone a "mystical one") with the father" at the seat, or as the cause, of the charge of blasphemy that is reported as having been leveled against Jesus in any of the Gospel accounts of his trial?

And would Pliate give a gnats ass about Jesus being a "blasphemer" no matter what the cause of the charge of blasphemy might have been?

And what on earth is a "mystical self identification" anyway? How does it differ from any other forms of "self identification"?

JG

Tigers!

I'll let you handle that part for me.